I do like the idea of mascots, but truthfully I think they are better done as non-human mascots and need to be simple. I think Japan got this right with Yura-chara[0]. There seems to be a strong preference for non-human characters and when there are human ones, they're still overly simplistic.
Seems like same rule about flags[1]: a child should be able to draw it from memory.
There's quite a precedent of sea-related names for transit fare cards. Hong Kong's Octopus, London's Oyster, San Francisco's Clipper... any others I've missed?
I always thought this “a child should be able to draw it” thing was an even better example of a vaguely contrarian factoid that sort of makes you sound smart if you don’t think about it too much, so it becomes endlessly repeated. Which is an interesting phenomenon in its own way.
It's not a fact(oid) at all as it's not a statement about reality. it's a principle. You don't have to agree with it, but others might disagree about the quality of the flag you might produce avoiding it.
Sure but I’m more talking about the way people use it than what it is in reality. Obviously it’s not a real truism, but if you heard it once then it’s something vaguely smart sounding you can say whenever a topic about flags comes up, even when it’s essentially a non-sequitur as in this case. People find it nearly irresistible to mention, which is fascinating.
I realize people technically say things to look smart, but i think you might have a specific beef with this topic. How often does the subject of evaluating flag quality come up in your social circles?
I was just as surprised as you are, though mainly it happens on Reddit rather than with anyone I would know personally. By the fifth, sixth time of the exact same reply, you really wonder what’s going on there and look into it. I’m not involved in flag related conversation circles otherwise.
Real world constraints mean any well constructed principle must at times be violated. That's not a flaw in the principle. A good principle for principles ("rules" in varying uses of the word) is that they need to be simple. Rules/principles of any kind are guides not immutable policies. It would be insane to create immutable policies as the world is constantly changing.
If a rule is overly complex, no one can remember it and there can be no expectation for people to follow.
tldr: All rules are guides. Be they rules rules or "rules" rules
Yes makes sense, I’m more talking about the way people use it in casual conversations than what it is in reality. Obviously it’s not a real “rule” with anyone enforcing it, flags children can draw aren’t actually generally inherently better in any non-subjective sense, and reality is a complex place.
Interesting point. Can anyone here draw a geometrically, not semantically, accurate Apple logo, without references? I can't, a reasonably convincing humanoid heads are much easier than that.
The first BART mascot has a little blue chibi goat next to the human girl, and I can't tell if the chibi is supposed to be an alternate form of the girl or a completely separate entity, but either way it seems like it could be a solid yura-chara.
It's a "you should" kind of rule not a "everyone follows this with no exceptions" kind of rule. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I can think of an example of the latter
> It's a "you should" kind of rule not a "everyone follows this with no exceptions" kind of rule.
It's not a "you should" kind of rule either. It's something someone made up and wants to persuade other people of for no particular reason, similar to "don't split infinitives".
There is no benefit to having people be able to draw the flag accurately. A flag has two purposes:
1. Be easy to recognize.
2. Be visually impressive.
Two good flags are the flag of California and the flag of Saudi Arabia. You'd have a hard time drawing either one, but that's not a problem.
> There is no benefit to having people be able to draw the flag accurately. A flag has two purposes:
The purposes you mention are much more easily achieved by being simple to draw.
Yes, it is something "someone is arguing" but it's congruent with general design principles you will see in most domains.
> a Spaniard claim her flag was easy to draw. She meant that it's easy to draw if you don't bother to draw the coat of arms.
She's not exactly wrong. Many countries use variants of flags for different uses. In the case of Spain[0] the civil flag does not have the coat of arms.
For a similar case, see the flag of Germany[1], Austria[2], Peru[3], Finland[4], Italy[5], and need I go on?
I don't think you should be ashamed for not knowing, but it's worth recognizing how easy it is to miscommunicate because different inherent assumptions are being made. In your case it is unsurprising that there is this disagreement because she sees the civil flag commonly and you don't, so it seems like a cop-out to you while it is pretty reasonable for her. There's surprisingly (annoyingly) a lot of depth to seemingly simple things.
> The purposes you mention are much more easily achieved by being simple to draw.
No, that is not true for either purpose. Being simple to draw is a negative in both cases:
(1) Things that are simple to draw can be easy to recognize, but things that are complex are easier to recognize.
(2) Things that are simple to draw are never visually impressive.
And the flags that are easy to draw are so simple that it's interfering with the ability to recognize them. The first example there would be Ireland vs the Ivory Coast:
> For a similar case, see the flag of Germany[1], Austria[2], Peru[3], Finland[4], Italy[5], and need I go on?
Go on? Try beginning first. Every single one of those links presents the flag without the coat of arms as a default and the flag with the coat of arms as a special case.
Look at the flags for Texas and Chile for a more reasonable version of the US flag. The new Minnesota flag is an example of a good flag by these rules as well.
They have non-human characters. The key mistake they made is that they put the human characters front and center. The human characters should appear in accompanying comics where they end up interacting with the animal mascots, not be the mascots themselves.
We have something similar here in Kyoto! But we're Japan so there's an actual anime [1] and a character relationship chart [2], both straight from the city government.
I'm pretty well travelled across Europe and North America, and a little bit of South America.
I've never seen anything like the BART anywhere else - and I don't mean that in a positive way.
It's late where I am, I'm about to go to bed, and now this image of a BART car that has "seen it all" is going to haunt me... I might eat a load of cheese to calm the dreams down...
Cloth seats on BART must be among the worst design decisions ever made. Seating on public transit must be something that can be hosed down with bleach, and not a material that will forever hold whatever funk is deposited into it.
I took BART a lot (uhhh) 30 years ago. The trains were very clean and highly policed. I wouldn't even bring a coffee on board, much less smoke crank or whatever. Different era.
Sounds like the dream. All I want is a more frequent police presence in and around the station infrastructure and on the trains for both BART and MUNI. Like why is that a different era? Why can’t that be the current era?
This is really cute and friendly. I like it; very much in-character for the BART.
My own transit system has sort of developed two mascots. They are not as artful or clever as BART's, but they are designed with a utilitarian purpose: to demonstrate good vs. bad behavior while onboard.
The characters are named "Right" and "Rong", both humanoids who are differentiated primarily by color and mood. Right, of course, does all the right things and abides by the rules, while Rong is a classic example of the scofflaw you wouldn't want sitting next to you.
Yes it is totally Goofus/Gallant style! Right down to the simplistic verse of the slogans in the window decals. Thanks for making that comparison. I am sure they drew from that fabled tradition, so to speak!
Ok but when’s the actual anime coming? They need new revenue streams. I’d love a romanticised anime about these characters working to save Bart or the Bay Area or some nonsense
I don't believe astrology is real, but I've assigned birthdays to some of my characters based on zodiac signs which are said to align with their personality, simply because it's cute and fun. I was inspired by the characters of Sailor Moon, each of which have a birthday in a zodiac sign ruled by their associated planet. (So Moon is a Cancer, Mercury is a Virgo, etc.).
I guess to each their own. I can see how it can be fun but when zodiac signs are discussed it is disproportionately about more than "fun" and that certainly biases me (and I think many others).
It’s from Japanese culture. Knowing a person’s (or a fictional character’s) blood type is something they find interesting. A bit like how we in the west find astrological signs interesting.
Seems like same rule about flags[1]: a child should be able to draw it from memory.
Only Barty seems to fit these conditions.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuru-chara
[1] https://nava.org/good-flag-bad-flag
If a rule is overly complex, no one can remember it and there can be no expectation for people to follow.
tldr: All rules are guides. Be they rules rules or "rules" rules
I like DPS-kun from beatmaniaⅡᴅx copula: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcfmIKKMu7Y
They made a plush of him that's very cute too
Im a grown ass man and can't draw the US flag properly from memory, much less the many far more complicated flags out there.
I don't think that definition is particularly useful.
CGP Grey has a lot of opinions[1] about this.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexillology
[1] https://youtu.be/l4w6808wJcU
It's not a "you should" kind of rule either. It's something someone made up and wants to persuade other people of for no particular reason, similar to "don't split infinitives".
There is no benefit to having people be able to draw the flag accurately. A flag has two purposes:
1. Be easy to recognize.
2. Be visually impressive.
Two good flags are the flag of California and the flag of Saudi Arabia. You'd have a hard time drawing either one, but that's not a problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_California
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Saudi_Arabia
(Note also that I've seen a Spaniard claim her flag was easy to draw. She meant that it's easy to draw if you don't bother to draw the coat of arms.)
Yes, it is something "someone is arguing" but it's congruent with general design principles you will see in most domains.
She's not exactly wrong. Many countries use variants of flags for different uses. In the case of Spain[0] the civil flag does not have the coat of arms.For a similar case, see the flag of Germany[1], Austria[2], Peru[3], Finland[4], Italy[5], and need I go on?
I don't think you should be ashamed for not knowing, but it's worth recognizing how easy it is to miscommunicate because different inherent assumptions are being made. In your case it is unsurprising that there is this disagreement because she sees the civil flag commonly and you don't, so it seems like a cop-out to you while it is pretty reasonable for her. There's surprisingly (annoyingly) a lot of depth to seemingly simple things.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Spain
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Austria
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Peru
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Finland
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Italy
No, that is not true for either purpose. Being simple to draw is a negative in both cases:
(1) Things that are simple to draw can be easy to recognize, but things that are complex are easier to recognize.
(2) Things that are simple to draw are never visually impressive.
And the flags that are easy to draw are so simple that it's interfering with the ability to recognize them. The first example there would be Ireland vs the Ivory Coast:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ivory_Coast
Another common confusion is Russia vs France, though in that case someone who needs to be able to tell the difference won't have trouble:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_France
> For a similar case, see the flag of Germany[1], Austria[2], Peru[3], Finland[4], Italy[5], and need I go on?
Go on? Try beginning first. Every single one of those links presents the flag without the coat of arms as a default and the flag with the coat of arms as a special case.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OInuZFHeQo
[2] https://www.city.kyoto.lg.jp/kotsu/cmsfiles/contents/0000215...
Not how I picture a BART car that has "seen it all".
I've never seen anything like the BART anywhere else - and I don't mean that in a positive way.
It's late where I am, I'm about to go to bed, and now this image of a BART car that has "seen it all" is going to haunt me... I might eat a load of cheese to calm the dreams down...
> Dislikes: Tight corners (screeches!)
My own transit system has sort of developed two mascots. They are not as artful or clever as BART's, but they are designed with a utilitarian purpose: to demonstrate good vs. bad behavior while onboard.
https://www.valleymetro.org/blog/2019/10/quick-guide-light-r...
The characters are named "Right" and "Rong", both humanoids who are differentiated primarily by color and mood. Right, of course, does all the right things and abides by the rules, while Rong is a classic example of the scofflaw you wouldn't want sitting next to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goofus_and_Gallant
The Anime Mascots are a good touch.
https://observer.com/2017/10/la-metro-promotes-transit-etiqu...
It would be consistent with (at least my conception of) SF's public messaging.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_personality_theory
I don't believe astrology is real, but I've assigned birthdays to some of my characters based on zodiac signs which are said to align with their personality, simply because it's cute and fun. I was inspired by the characters of Sailor Moon, each of which have a birthday in a zodiac sign ruled by their associated planet. (So Moon is a Cancer, Mercury is a Virgo, etc.).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_service