Scientist who helped eradicate smallpox dies at age 89

(scientificamerican.com)

300 points | by CrossVR 4 days ago

11 comments

  • olivia-banks 1 day ago
    Paywall-free link: https://archive.today/Toq4Y
  • andrewflnr 1 day ago
    That's got to be one of the greatest legacies in all human history. No politician or other empire-builder comes close.
    • jfengel 1 day ago
      And it comes at a time when a disease we were working on eliminating, measles, has come back and the US is about to lose its measles-free status.

      It sounds as if his legacy is to be unique, a feat never to be accomplished again.

      • quesera 23 hours ago
        We still have another chance for eradication in humans with Polio.
        • 3eb7988a1663 22 hours ago
          Not if the CIA has anything to say about it: CIA fake vaccination campaign in Pakistan[0]

            ...The program was ultimately unsuccessful in locating Osama bin Laden. It led to the arrest of a participating physician, Shakil Afridi, and was widely ridiculed as undermining public health.[2][3] The program is credited with increasing vaccine hesitancy in Pakistan[4][5][6][7] and a rise in violence against healthcare workers for being perceived as spies.[8] The rise in vaccine hesitancy following the program led to the re-emergence of polio in Pakistan, with Pakistan having by far the largest number of polio cases in the world by 2014.[8]
          
          [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_fake_vaccination_campaign_...
          • ccppurcell 17 hours ago
            This should be a war crime...
            • belorn 16 hours ago
              Given the period of 2010-2012, the president at the time was Barack Obama. It does not seem realistic that people would accept opening a criminal case.
              • atoav 9 hours ago
                I would accept it if it even if it was done by Ghandi.
                • belorn 5 hours ago
                  It is approaches like that which gives some hope to the future. War crimes are indeed something which should never be allowed or overlooked. Being a political leader doesn't make people immune to criticism, but rather should be someone held to a higher expectation.
                • trueismywork 8 hours ago
                  Who is Ghandi?
                  • et-al 7 hours ago
                    It's probably a mispelling of a French domain registrar known for its nonviolent resistance.
              • goku12 16 hours ago
                Why does it matter if it was Obama or Bush in power? Sure, their politics influence the nation's foreign policies. But domestic partisan politics is largely irrelevant to the international partners. To the foreign nationals affected by it, you're just USA either way.

                I mentioned just the other day, the problem with anti-intellectualism in the US and how it's fed by these sorts of egregious meddling by the administration. There are much less educated and affluent countries that are nowhere near as anti-science as the US. Yet unfortunately, the US exports it abroad too. I explicitly referred the same Pakistani case as an example of that. I'm all for Osama's elimination, but they jeopardized the entire humanity's future by misusing the vaccination program for it.

                Despite a century of this nonsense (remember the radium girls?), neither political party cares enough to not pervert science in the interests of humanity. Smallpox and Polio were horrible diseases that caused untold miseries. Even the remote tribes of Pakistan knew their dangers well enough to participate in their elimination, until the US pulled off this dirty stunt. This is a deeply ingrained toxic culture that was reinforced by both parties over the decade. This should be a war crime irrespective of party allegiances.

                • aleph_minus_one 10 hours ago
                  > Why does it matter if it was Obama or Bush in power?

                  If Bush was in Power, of course the accusation would have to made against Bush. So, of course, the accusation has to be made against the president that was in charge at the time. Dark skin color does not give him a "Get Out of Jail Free Card".

                • throw20251220 11 hours ago
                  > Why does it matter if it was Obama or Bush in power?

                  How can you open a war crime case against a guy who already got a Peace Nobel Prize? And what war crime? Was there a war? Maybe some special military operation against Bin Laden.

                  • aleph_minus_one 10 hours ago
                    > How can you open a war crime case against a guy who already got a Peace Nobel Prize?

                    Henry Kissinger (1973 Nobel Peace Prize together with Lê Đức Thọ) can be considered a war criminal:

                    > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trial_of_Henry_Kissinger

                    Yasser Arafat (1994 Nobel Peace Prize together with Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres) was also very likely a war criminal.

                    • throw20251220 5 hours ago
                      Should’ve could’ve. If the grandma had a moustache she would be the grandpa.
              • sigwinch 11 hours ago
                Are you kidding? A way to smear Obama and portray him as disrespectful to non-whites? The only reason it’s not on Fox is that it reminds Americans that we’ve only had one victory in the War on Terror and the Republican Party contributed nothing positive.
            • tdeck 17 hours ago
              War crimes are "for Africa and thugs like Putin".
            • michaelsshaw 13 hours ago
              International law does not apply to the leaders of the western hegemony. It is merely a tool used to oppress poor nations even further.

              This fact only further proves one thing: the CIA is a terrorist organization and the state behind it is responsible for some of the most disgusting things this planet has ever seen.

          • kakacik 16 hours ago
            CIA at its best, f_cking up world one bit at a time (and amount of those bits amount to quite a few kilobytes at least at this point, I can attest that every European country I've ever lived in carries some more or less visible involvements in past few decades although this one is quite a spectacular clusterf_ck)
          • DangitBobby 10 hours ago
            Evil shit
          • gosub100 9 hours ago
            Why would this cause everyone in the area to not vaccinate, and not just limited to parents who are on a most-wanted list?

            What made me disappointed about this was that they revealed how they did it, and they didn't rescue the doctor who helped them pull it off.

          • throw20251220 11 hours ago
            > The program is credited with increasing vaccine hesitancy in …

            Sounds like RFK Jr…

      • epistasis 22 hours ago
        Perhaps I'm overly an optimist, but I have a feeling we will develop the informational and psychological technology to combat the destructive misinformation campaigns that brainwash people into harming their children with anti-vaccine beliefs.

        We are not there yet, because the destructive media forces are too new and we haven't developed defenses against information diseases like RFK Jr. But we will get there. Two steps forward, one step back.

        • jfengel 11 hours ago
          I admire your optimism. I genuinely wish I could share it. I hope that you are right.
          • epistasis 10 hours ago
            Russia is close to falling, which is the true source of many of the mental viruses that are destroying democracies. And now, Russia's biggest win, the US, is proving that instead of heading towards fascism, that the people will actually stand up and fight back. Six months ago, the outlook was far more uncertain and if the US had not resisted, or Trump had picked a softer target than Minnesotans (never invade a winter people in winter), I would probably be feeing far different.

            Things in the US are going to get far worse from here, and there will be a political war, but at least there will be a political war against the fascism. A lower bound has been established for badness that at least allows saving democracy in the US. I have not been this hopeful since October 2024.

        • DangitBobby 10 hours ago
          How does a public that derives its knowledge from authority (For example, how do 99.999% of people know that the earth is flat and orbits the sun? Would they be able to reach those conclusions if school books taught something else?) stand a chance at resisting misinformation spread by trusted authorities?
          • aleph_minus_one 9 hours ago
            > how do 99.999% of people know that the earth is flat and orbits the sun?

            Pun intended?

        • vkou 20 hours ago
          Who is we, who will pay for it, and how will such informational inoculation benefit the rich?

          The current media status quo, and its consequences does, which is why we get to enjoy it.

        • tjpnz 16 hours ago
          As a non-American I don't care what you do, if you want to behave like irresponsible idiots without any regard for the lives of others you have that right. Just don't subject vulnerable individuals in other countries to your own bad choices (you can get the MMR vaccine as an adult if your parents were neglectful). Maybe visitors from the United States should have to present vaccine certificates at airports or be quarantined at their own expense.
          • nathan_compton 11 hours ago
            > you can get the MMR vaccine as an adult if your parents were neglectful

            if you are still alive.

          • epistasis 14 hours ago
            Canada and the UK have a ton more measles than even the US's completely unacceptable level of measles.

            Thinning this is a US problem completely misunderstands the nature of the misinformation problem.

            And I hope there's vaccination requirements for travel, according to how public health officials determine threats.

            • Aurornis 10 hours ago
              Canada already lost their measles elimination status and had several times higher measles rate than the US.

              At this point, anyone pushing anti-vaccine thinking as an American problem is just pushing anti-American bias. Vaccine misinformation and hesitancy is an almost worldwide problem.

        • somenameforme 9 hours ago
          People can simply have different perspectives on things. Measels has mortality rate of around 0.1% while small pox has a mortality rate of around 30%. So the individual risk from measels is relatively low leaving plenty of room for individual choice.

          There's less room for the same argument with small pox. In fact small pox is where the term vaccine comes from - it was observed that milk maids weren't getting smallpox, which led to the discovery that infection with cow pox (which is relatively harmless) provided immunity to small pox - hence 'vacca cine', vacca = cow in latin.

          But there's a long history of people trying to self vaccinate with all sorts of things against small pox including using scrapings off somebody's small pox wounds to hopefully give oneself a light infection. Needless to say that came with well understood side effects up to and including full-on small pox infection. But when the death rate is 30%, people were willing to do some crazy things, because the risk:reward was seen as worth it.

          ---

          FWIW I did ultimately decide to vaccinate my children against measels, but it was not an easy decision, because it is in general not that risky a disease whose mortality rate had already precipitously declined (from 13 per 100k to 0.19 per 100k) [1] before a vaccine was first introduced in 1963. Obviously I think it's the right decision, but I also wouldn't really fault anybody for going the other direction either.

          [1] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/measles-cases-and-death-r...

          • jfengel 9 hours ago
            I think that if people observed what a 1 in 1,000 chance of a dead child looked like, they'd have a much easier time making the decision.
            • somenameforme 9 hours ago
              A friend's favorite Wiki page is on the micromort. [1] I found it kind of banal, but perhaps that's my more casual attitude towards death. I suspect the average person doesn't realize, or doesn't accept, how brief life truly is. One micromort is something with a 1 in a million chance of death. So with measels, we're talking about 1000 micromorts, if you're infected - which is also extremely unlikely. So if you give yourself a 1% chance of ever being infected with measels (which would be quite high) then not vaccinating would be down to a 1% * 1000 = 10 micromorts of risk.

              All non-natural cause of death in the US, excluding suicide, is about 1.3 micromorts per day. So it's the same all non-natural cause risk you'll be exposed to over the next week. The page offers a lot of other comparables - traveling 100 miles by biking, 2500 by car, or 10k by airplane, and so on.

              [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort

              • jfengel 6 hours ago
                In a world with a low vaccination rate, infection with measles is practically 100%. It spreads more easily than COVID.

                You can take your risk with herd immunity if you want. That works well now, with a near universal vaccination rate. But if the rate drops below 90%, then you will get infected.

          • flufluflufluffy 7 hours ago
            Your child being vaccinated against measles is 1. yes, protecting them, but 2. also protecting all the other children at school they interact with, and vice-versa. It isn’t just an individual choice. You should definitely fault people for going the other direction because they are willingly increasing the chance of your child or your child’s friends getting measles.
          • riversflow 8 hours ago
            Getting sick isn’t just life or death.

            My parents both got measels, and they had no hesitancy getting me vaccinated. I’m significantly taller than my dad, who lost 40 pounds when he got German measles when he was 17. I grew several inches that year.

            People who don’t get vaccinated are bad people. I have no qualms saying it.

    • WalterBright 19 hours ago
      Food produced by Fritz Haber's Haber-Bosch process (making fertilizer) supports about half of the world's population.
      • andrewflnr 19 hours ago
        He has quite a bit of chemical warfare weighing down his record.
        • adastra22 16 hours ago
          He killed millions. He fed billions.
          • Y-bar 15 hours ago
            Epstein was friendly with, and made more people smile, than he raped.

            Phil Spector produced music which meant a lot to a lot of people. Still a murderer.

            Harold Shipman Saved the lives of thousands, yet should always be labelled a mass murderer because he knowingly positioned hundreds.

            • Metacelsus 14 hours ago
              >Harold Shipman Saved the lives of thousands

              Probably not though, I don't think a typical GP saves thousands of lives

              • Y-bar 10 hours ago
                Not alone, but as a team I bet he did. Just as Fritz Haber did not personally save countless millions with his discovery, thousands of other people had to be involved there as well.
                • adastra22 8 hours ago
                  Billions. The total carrying capacity of the Earth maxes out at 4bn people, even with maximally optimized agriculture and a vegetarian diet. The extra half of the Earth's population today owe their existence to Haber-Bosch.

                  It really was a two-man team that discovered nitrogen fixation - the other being not Carl Bosch, but Robert Le Rossignol who assisted Haber in developing his bench-scale nitrogen fixing reactor. Carl Bosch led the team that scaled it up, and that was a large effort of hundreds of people.

                  • Y-bar 6 hours ago
                    Please not that this was in relation to whether or not a general doctor saves lives… A lot of work is indirect.

                    The Haber–Bosch process was never a two‑man mission to “feed the world.” Haber devised a laboratory method to fix nitrogen, and Bosch led the first industrial‑scale implementation, but neither of them was personally producing, optimizing, transporting, and applying fertilizer across the globe. Turning that reaction into most of the world’s nitrogen fertilizer required teams of chemists, engineers, metalworkers, factory operators, agronomists, logistics workers, and farmers, and an entire century of industrial expansion. If it truly were a two‑person accomplishment, we would only need a handful of farmers per country, which is obviously not how agriculture or industry work.

      • accidentallfact 18 hours ago
        There is no reason to believe that a lack of nitrogen was a problem in particular. It seems that most effort was spent on getting fertilizers with phosphorus and other minerals, nitrogen was secondary, as many plants can obtain it from the air. If anything, it allows our modern, heavily cereal skewed diet. Poor nutrition rarely meant an absolute lack of food, most of the time it only meant insufficuent quality, and the green revolution was a massive step backward in that regard
        • adastra22 16 hours ago
          Plants cannot obtain nitrogen from the air. You are deeply misinformed on this subject.
          • gucci-on-fleek 16 hours ago
            > Plants cannot obtain nitrogen from the air

            That is literally true, but for anyone who hasn't studied plant biology, I think that "some plants have evolved specific structures to host obligate symbiotic bacteria that obtain nitrogen from the air and convert it into a form usable by the plant" is close enough to "many plants can obtain [nitrogen] from the air".

            (A link for anyone not familiar with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nodule)

    • davidgay 21 hours ago
      I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur wins this one, though.
    • s0rce 23 hours ago
      Norman Borlaug probably comes close. H. Trendley Dean was also impactful on a large scale, while its seemingly less important it helps a lot of people.
    • gucci-on-fleek 16 hours ago
      I completely agree, but to be fair, there are some people who are politicians and helped to eradicate a disease [0] [1].

      [0]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/guinea-worm-disease-nearly-erad...

      [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eradication_of_dracunculiasis

    • vkou 20 hours ago
      Is there any way that people can work to re-introduce it into society? I know some folks are making a lot of progress with MMR.
    • wesleywt 20 hours ago
      Politicians and empire-builders (Elon) is currently standing in the way of human progress and history.
      • WalterBright 19 hours ago
        So creating cheap, reusable giant rockets is standing in the way of human progress? Being able to use neural links to restore sight to the blind is standing in the way?
        • lukan 17 hours ago
          There was another group of people famous for building innovative rockets, but are otherwise not associated with human progress.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_flying_bomb

          So it is about the big picture. (And about small pictures like that of Elon making a salut like the other group).

          So yes, currently his rockets do not transport explosives. But that can change anytime and I expect it will very soon.

          • lmz 15 hours ago
            I thought American space flight etc was directly indebted to the people behind the V bombs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
            • WalterBright 7 hours ago
              The Saturn V was simply a scaled up V2. The critical components were all there:

              1. boundary layer cooling

              2. pre-heating fuel and cooling the nozzle by pushing the fuel through tubes in the nozzle

              3. baffles to prevent pogo-ing

              4. turbo fuel pumps

              5. supersonic airframe

              6. guidance system (although primitive)

              The V2 was an ineffective military weapon that did little damage - because its guidance system was too primitive to be able to hit a target. Hitler also poured enormous resources into the V2 program, shifted away from producing weapons that were effective.

          • Verdex 12 hours ago
            Elon rockets are only interesting because they can be reused.

            What use is a reusable rocket with respect to explosives?

            • WalterBright 7 hours ago
              A car can be used to take people to the hospital, or it can be used to transport explosives.
            • lukan 11 hours ago
              They can bring explosives to space, loitering space ammunition.
            • Spooky23 11 hours ago
              Pretty easy. The only limits are your imagination and depravity. You launch the rocket, drop an orbital vehicle behind, and land. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

              That vehicle could deorbit and drop a tungsten penetrator, smallpox, a nuclear device or any number of things.

              All funded by a combination of government spending and defrauding the public via the Tesla Ponzi scheme.

              • NetMageSCW 7 hours ago
                Dropping a tungsten penetrator from orbit is an idea only science fiction can justify. In the real world the economics never close.
                • lukan 7 hours ago
                  Huh?

                  In the real world we so far just managed to keep space free of military weapons not because they are expensive, but because of treaties. I just don't expect those to last much longer.

                  And frankly I never looked into the concept, but why do you think, a space base tungsten penetrator would be way more expensive, than a nuke on a missile?

        • Mordisquitos 18 hours ago
          I'm pretty sure that GP commenter was referring to the other stuff.
          • WalterBright 7 hours ago
            He shouldn't leave people guessing what he was referring to.
            • Mordisquitos 6 hours ago
              Maybe not, but one can always converse curiously and ask them what they meant. It's nicer to respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize.
              • WalterBright 4 hours ago
                My replies ended in question marks.
                • andrewflnr 4 hours ago
                  You're really going to play the "just asking questions" card? You're smarter than this. Or should be.
                  • WalterBright 44 minutes ago
                    You're doing the same thing you allege I did.
      • wtcactus 18 hours ago
        Yes, I'm sure that starting the EV revolution, creating a satellite based internet network that covers the all planet and making space launches fully reusable and 10x cheaper is "standing in the way of human progress and history".

        If you people could only hear yourselves talk...

        • i_cannot_hack 14 hours ago
          Elon Musk is promoting progress only when he has something to gain from it (in economical terms or in terms of his image), but has no qualms wrecking progress, butchering indiscriminately and hurting prople when it comes to his personal grievances. This is further aggravated by his mercurial and egomaniacal personality, and the false reality build on conspiracies he surrounds himself in.

          Hapazardly and chaotically dismantling the US public sector on some ideological crusade was not advancing human progress. Netiher was turning Twitter into some farcical shell of its former self, owned by Saudi Arabia. Neither was sabotaging projects such as high-speed rail systems purely out of spite.

          > Musk told me that the idea originated out of his hatred for California’s proposed high-speed rail system. … At the time, it seemed that Musk had dished out the Hyperloop proposal just to make the public and legislators rethink the high-speed train. He didn’t actually intend to build the thing. … With any luck, the high-speed rail would be canceled. Musk said as much to me during a series of e-mails and phone calls leading up to the announcement.

          Any good he has produced along the way (that mitigates the damage he is causing) is only a means to an end for him, and he would have no hesitations burning it all to the ground the moment it suites him. If everyone acted like him humanity would be doomed, not quickly progressing toward some technological utopia.

          Or, as his acquaintance Sam Altman put it: "Elon desperately wants the world to be saved. But only if he can be the one to save it."

        • BoredPositron 7 hours ago
          Haven't seen anything of your talking points make any reasonable impact in societal problems.
        • flawn 14 hours ago
          It's not what his businesses are doing, it is what he says and what he spreads to a tech bro disciple that spreads this shit far away, working with technologies like AI at the forefront, ending up setting us back in our progress & history.

          Same applies to Thiel, Zuckerberg and whoever not. Read up on Thiel & Trump, then come back.

          • michaelsshaw 13 hours ago
            I don't think reading comprehension is his forté.
            • wtcactus 12 hours ago
              [flagged]
              • michaelsshaw 12 hours ago
                Which LLM wrote this for you?
                • wtcactus 12 hours ago
                  Well, unfortunately I still don’t have access to the hyper sophisticated god like AI that you, in your immense intellect, created, Michael. So I had to use a lesser one.

                  Of I did though, I’m sure my answer to your - extremely snarky and intelligent - remark world be a text that would stand in the shoulders of giants, together with Ulysses, The Divine Comedy and The Aeneid.

                  • michaelsshaw 12 hours ago
                    You could just restate your position, which is that you support pedophiles, rather than embarrassing yourself repeatedly with these replies.
                    • wtcactus 11 hours ago
                      Oh, no Michael, I’m sure, that in your infinite acumen, you know this and just want to spare us, lesser mortals, from the despairing truth. But I know the truth Michael, I know.

                      They are not just pedophiles, they are the pedophile lizard people Michael. Oh, the horror! The horror!

              • accidentallfact 10 hours ago
                [flagged]
        • michaelsshaw 13 hours ago
          I must have forgotten that Elon actually is the original founder of Tesla and not a phony. At best he's their money guy.

          Do you think Elon knows a single thing about rockets? Do you actually think he has literally anything to do with them? He isn't even capable of forming a sentence without stuttering, much less actually doing literally anything at all. Keep defending your pedophiles, bro. I'm sure in 10 years you'll be glad we have a written record of your stance.

          • NetMageSCW 7 hours ago
            Yes , he does. And making fun of people who stutter isn’t a good look.

            I will take the word of the world’s foremost rocket engine engineer who was in the room with Musk a lot of times, to someone posting in ignorance on the Internet.

        • accidentallfact 17 hours ago
          These people have been a problem in the west for over a century. They are unintelligent people who spend their lives fighting what confuses them, and replacing it with something worse, that they can understand.
    • s5300 23 hours ago
      [dead]
    • strivefortruth 17 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • bmicraft 17 hours ago
        You created an account to shill for a product?
    • deadbabe 1 day ago
      Genghis Khan??
      • andrewflnr 23 hours ago
        I thought it was clear from my statement about politicians and empire builders that I was talking about people who did good, useful things.
        • adastra22 16 hours ago
          No? That’s not at all obvious.
      • lmz 15 hours ago
        Genghis Khan also not too bad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Mongolica

        Whose peace are we now living under and what atrocities did they commit to establish it?

        • andrewflnr 9 hours ago
          I think this is a rationalization. Humans are always tempted to look up to power, and what's more powerful than an empire? It goes unquestioned that we should respect the Roman empire, for instance, and you pretty often see an argument for the Mongolian empire. But these days, we know that violence is bad so we have to find other reasons to justify our feelings. So we talk about the "peace" they established after all the war. But is the cost really worth it? How many people not attacked by bandits do you need to justify an innocent murdered by raiding soldiers? Never mind that even the "peace" is often sustained through oppression. The Romans didn't invent crucifixion for Jesus, it's something they did. Never mind that the empire never lasts, and plants seeds of the next dozen wars as it falls, watered with yet more blood.

          Ask yourself: if you honestly intended to create peace, would a century or more (in the case of Rome) of bloody conquest actually be the optimal plan? I would say no. An actual plan for peace through strength looks more like NATO than Rome.

          Any good an empire builder does is accidental. Whatever they tell you or even themselves, they do it for glory and power, and their actions are optimized for that over any actual benefits. They were not nobler than the conquerors and colonizers were rightfully decry today.

        • deadbabe 10 hours ago
          Sometimes you have to do a lot of things that look very bad in order to do some greater good that overshadows all the bad you did.
      • iwontberude 1 day ago
        Greatest, not most fucked
  • m-hodges 1 day ago
    I don’t think many people know about or remember the 2003 smallpox vaccination campaign.¹

    > The campaign aimed to provide the smallpox vaccine to those who would respond to an attack, establishing Smallpox Response Teams and using DryVax (containing the NYCBOH strain) to mandatorily vaccinate half a million American military personnel, followed by half a million health care worker volunteers by January 2004. The first vaccine was administered to then-President George W. Bush.

    ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_United_States_smallpox_va...

    • cucumber3732842 1 day ago
      Nobody in Hn type circles wants to remember it because looking back with hindsight it was clearly just part of the theater to get people wringing their hands about whatever chemical or biological WMDs they alleged Saddam had and they killed the program as so as they got their invasion.

      Wikipedia somehow makes it eve worse than that:

      "The campaign ended early in June 2003, with only 38,257 civilian health care workers vaccinated, after several hospitals refused to participate due to the risk of the live virus infecting vulnerable patients and skepticism about the risks of an attack, and after over 50 heart complications were reported by the CDC."

  • kwhat4 1 day ago
    Just in time to roll over in his grave.
  • octate 19 hours ago
    He did a great service to humanity
  • CaliforniaKarl 1 day ago
    I'm starting to think that we should be calling it "contained", not "eradicated". Eradication invites the question "Well then, why do we still need the vaccine?"
    • rolph 21 hours ago
    • dgacmu 22 hours ago
      It really is eradicated - it's the only human disease we've truly eradicated. There are literally no more cases of smallpox in the wild, period.

      The problem is that there are samples of viable virus in the labs of the US and Russia. So - it's eradicated but we have to keep stockpiles of vaccine around anyway. But nobody gets vaccined for it any more; it has an unfavorable risk-benefit ratio when the virus simply does not circulate. Smallpox kills ~30% of people who get infected with it; the first-generation vaccine had a mortality rate of about 1 in 1,000,000.

      (There are newer-generation vaccines developed and being developed that have an even better safety profile but we still wouldn't use them because the cost - the literal cost and the side effects and general "meh, why get another shot?"-ness outweighs the benefit of protection against something you don't need protection against.)

      • saalweachter 13 hours ago
        Actually, do we need to keep samples anymore?

        mRNA vaccines go from sequenced DNA to vaccine without any need to store or culture the original virus in the lab.

        We could destroy our existing stockpile of smallpox and be ready to produce vaccines based on it faster than we could thirty years ago.

        We couldn't validate new vaccines without access to the live virus, but then, if we aren't willing to expose hopefully-volunteers to a disease with a 30% mortality rate, we weren't really validating it anyway.

        But yeah, I think we could probably unilaterally "disarm" and destroy our smallpox samples, and from a national security standpoint, I don't think we'd be significantly worse off; if the weaponized strain is significantly different from the old strain, enough to bypass vaccination, we'd need samples of the new thing in any case.

        I'm not even sure we'd be substantially limiting new research on it, given that smallpox doesn't infect animals, I'm not sure if there's even any animal testing we could do with a live virus.

        So yeah. Destroy the samples already.

    • yen223 1 day ago
      Most people nowadays are not vaccinated against smallpox anymore
    • ksenzee 19 hours ago
      This is tangential to your point, but smallpox vaccine protects against mpox (the virus formerly known as monkeypox) and the CDC still recommends it for people in certain mpox risk groups.
    • quesera 1 day ago
      We don't vaccinate against smallpox, but keep in mind that at least two countries maintain live smallpox virus in government labs.

      The bad actors are predictable. And I suspect at least two others are lying.

    • fuckyah 22 hours ago
      [dead]
  • webdoodle 21 hours ago
    Except it wasn't eradicated. It's still stored at the US's Fort Detrick, and in Russian and Chinese bioweapons facilities, too be released as a bioweapon, now that no one has natural immunity anymore.
    • MagicMoonlight 19 hours ago
      If you don’t keep it then the first time you’ll get to study it will be when the first bodies are recovered from your cities.
      • runako 19 hours ago
        Coincidentally, that would be the first time it would be urgent to study.
    • IshKebab 10 hours ago
      It would be a pretty shoddy bioweapon considering you can't really target it and vaccines are available.

      Maybe Russia or China are funding anti-vax idiots in the US so that it only affects America :-D

      • webdoodle 9 hours ago
        Most people aren't vaccinated for smallpox, and only a very small amount of vaccine is even produced, mostly for medical and military people. Targetting is easy, here's your blanket while the power is out...
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    • tialaramex 1 day ago
      It might be possible to reintroduce Smallpox and I guess that idiots who also think coal is a good idea might actually be stupid enough to make it happen. But, fortunately humans did wipe out one other disease and unlike Smallpox it wasn't deemed useful as a biological weapon so AFAIK nobody kept copies, it's just gone.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinderpest

      • BigTTYGothGF 1 day ago
        > AFAIK nobody kept copies

        Unfortunately this is not the case: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63707-z

      • tehjoker 1 day ago
        Funnily enough, RFK Jr. is doing what he can to bring its human cousin back:

        "Measles virus evolved from the then-widespread rinderpest virus most probably between the 11th and 12th centuries."

      • k_roy 1 day ago
        Good thing that smallpox wasn’t eradicated due to a vaccine.
        • olivia-banks 1 day ago
          Vaccinia is very different from Smallpox. Or perhaps I misunderstand you?
        • pfdietz 1 day ago
          That was sarcasm, right?
        • Bud 1 day ago
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    • olivia-banks 1 day ago
      > Construction of an infectious horsepox virus vaccine from chemically synthesized DNA fragments

      https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

      In theory, it's very much doable. We brought back an extinct cowpox virus a while ago using mail-order DNA. Did you know that Smallpox's nucleotide sequence is freely available online?

      • XorNot 1 day ago
        You're going to have to link that for me because I know the longtermism people are nuts about this, but their actual understanding is pretty poor.

        There's a gulf between assembling a vaccine - which is a commonplace technology, and assembling a viable infectious viral particle.

        Being able to order all the oligos of a viral sequence isn't even step 1.

        • olivia-banks 22 hours ago
          I'm not sure if I understand your comment, but they were able to grow and propagate scHPXV in their lab. Link the sequence? Sure, it's on NCBI

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/NC_001611.1

          As for getting the nucleotides themselves, there are numerous services for ordering oligonucleotides which you can "stitch together." I think this used to be done with phosphoramidite synthesis, but the article I linked says they used plasmid synthesis, and ordered from ThermoFisher.

          https://www.thermofisher.com/us/en/home/life-science/cloning...

          I'm not sure what the price would be on this (I would imagine very high?), but it has to be cheaper than phosphoramidite chemistry. Nevertheless, the price of doing this sort of things w/ plasmids is plummeting.