Why XML Tags Are So Fundamental to Claude

(glthr.com)

64 points | by glth 3 hours ago

13 comments

  • kid64 30 minutes ago
    The thesis here seems to be that delimiters provide important context for Claude, and for that putpose we should use XML.

    The article even references English's built-in delimiter, the quotation mark, which is reprented as a token for Claude, part of its training data.

    So are we sure the lesson isn't simply to leverage delimiters, such as quotation marks, in prompts, period? The article doesn't identify any way in which XML is superior to quotation marks in scenarios requiring the type of disambiguation quotation marks provide.

    Rather, the example XML tags shown seem to be serving as a shorthand for notating sections of the prompt ("treat this part of the prompt in this particular way"). That's useful, but seems to be addressing concerns that are separate from those contemplated by the author.

  • michaelcampbell 51 minutes ago
    Total tangent, but what vagary of HTML (or the Brave Browser, which I'm using here) causes words to be split in very odd places? The "inspect" devtools certainly didn't show anything unusual to me. (Edit: Chrome, MS Edge, and Firefox do the same thing. I also notice they're all links; wonder if that has something to do with it.)

    https://i.imgur.com/HGa0i3m.png

    • werdnapk 39 minutes ago
      CSS on the <a> tags:

      word-break: break-all;

    • fancy_pantser 37 minutes ago
      CSS word-break property
  • TheJoeMan 3 hours ago
    That first image, “Structure Prompts with XML”, just screams AI-written. The bullet lists don’t line up, the numbering starts at (2), random bolding. Why would anyone trust hallucinated documentation for prompting? At least with AI-generated software documentation, the context is the code itself, being regurgitated into bulleted english. But for instructions on using the LLM itself, it seems pretty lazy to not hand-type the preferred usage and human-learned tips.
    • rafram 2 hours ago
      No, it’s two screenshots from Anthropic documentation, stitched together: https://platform.claude.com/docs/en/build-with-claude/prompt...

      The post even links to that page, although there’s a typo in the link.

      • glth 1 hour ago
        Author here: I have just fixed the typo. Thank you.

        And yes, these are screenshots from Anthropic’s documentation.

      • dmd 1 hour ago
        They're not even stitched together ; there's just no padding between the two images.
    • Calavar 2 hours ago
      It looks like a screenshot from the Claude desktop app, so I don't think the author is trying to disguise the AI origin of the marerial
    • croes 1 hour ago
      You just hallucinated the content is AI generated.
      • michaelcampbell 47 minutes ago
        "This is AI" is the new "This is 'shopped, I can tell by the pixels."
        • tingletech 27 minutes ago
          I can tell by the em dashes
  • apwheele 1 hour ago
    I think XML is good to know for prompting (similar to how <think></think> was popular for outputs, you can do that for other sections). But I have had much better experience just writing JSON and using line breaks, colons, etc. to demarcate sections.

    E.g. instead of

        <examples>
          <ex1>
            <input>....</input>
            <output>.....</output>
          </ex1>
          <ex2>....</ex2>
          ...
        </examples>
        <instructions>....</instructions>
        <input>{actual input}</input>
    
    Just doing something like:

        ...instructions...
        input: ....
        output: {..json here}
        ...maybe further instructions...
        input: {actual input}
    
    Use case document processing/extraction (both with Haiku and OpenAI models), the latter example works much better than the XML.

    N of 1 anecdote anyway for one use case.

    • ekjhgkejhgk 53 minutes ago
      Could you clarify, do those tags need to be tags which exist and we need to lear about them and how to use them? Or we can put inside them whatever we want and just by virtue of being tags, Claude understands them in a special way?
      • ezfe 39 minutes ago
        They probably don’t need to be specific values. The model is fine tuned to see the tags as signals and then interprets them
      • apwheele 31 minutes ago
        All the major foundation models will understand them implicitly, so it was popular to use <think>, but you could also use <reason> or <thinkhard> and the model would still go through the same process.
  • alansaber 34 minutes ago
    Sounds like as 1. XML is the cleanest/best quality training data (especially compared to PDF/HTML) 2. It follows that a user providing semantic tags in XML format can get best training alignment (hence best results). Shame they haven't quantified this assertion here.
  • twoodfin 48 minutes ago
    This isn’t surprising: XML’s core purpose was to simplify SGML for a wider breadth of applications on the web.

    HTML also descended from SGML, and it’s hard to imagine a more deeply grooved structure in these models, given their training data.

    So if you want to annotate text with semantics in a way models will understand…

  • imglorp 2 hours ago
    A very minor porcelain on some of the agent input UX could present this structure for you. Instead of a single chat window, have four: task, context, constraints, output format.

    And while we're at it, instead of wall-of-text, I also feel like outputs could be structured at least into thinking and content, maybe other sections.

  • CactusBlue 20 minutes ago
    I think the main advantage of the XML here is that the model is expected to have a matching end tag that is balanced, which reduces the likelihood of malformed outputs.
  • Zebfross 2 hours ago
    I thought the goal was minimal instruction to let Claude determine the best way to solve the problem. Not adding this to my workflow anytime soon.
    • TheLNL 56 minutes ago
      It is not for the end user, it is more for things like wrappers and automation scripts.

      Nobody expects the end user to prompt the AI using a structured language like xml

  • wolttam 2 hours ago
    Anthropic’s tool calling was exposed as XML tags at the beginning, before they introduced the JSON API. I expect they’re still templating those tool calls into XML before passing to the model’s context
    • pocketarc 2 hours ago
      Yeah like I remember prior to reasoning models, their guidance was to use <think> tags to give models space for reasoning prior to an answer (incidentally, also the reason I didn't quite understand the fuss with reasoning models at first). It's always been XML with Anthropic.
      • wolttam 1 hour ago
        Exactly the same story here. I still use a tool that just asks them to use <think> instead of enabling native reasoning support, which has worked well back to Sonnet 3.0 (their first model with 'native' reasoning support was Sonnet 3.7)
  • Eric_WVGG 26 minutes ago
    bemused by how competently designed this is, compared to enshittified blogs and whatnot

    To be realistic, this design needs more weirdly sexual etsy garbage, “one weird tip,” and “punch the monkey”

  • esafak 2 hours ago
    This sounds like something for harnesses, not end users. Are they really expecting us to format prompts as XML??
  • nimbus-hn-test 1 hour ago
    [dead]