After a bad breakup in 2015, I followed some advice from the socialskills subreddit to “talk to everyone” so that you get better at talking to women you might want to date. The advice was not to only talk to attractive people but everyone. The old man reading a Russian newspaper, the kid on bike doing tricks, people in the elevator.
I do that now and it brings me a lot of joy. Recently while leaving a botanical garden I spoke to a man who was excitedly looking for a few specific plants. He is a botanist (amateur? professional? unclear) and I enjoyed sharing in his passion for a moment. Then I saw a maintenance guy moving with great intention who took a moment to ask me and my family if we had a nice time. We did, and I asked him about the papers in his hand. “Gotta get approval for this purchase request asap.” He said. We talked a bit about how nice it is to work at such a beautiful place.
I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
> I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
Which country are you in?
I'm from a latin country and the norm is that you end up chatting about life the universe and everything with any random people you share a space with for more than one minute.
But in the USA that doesn't really fly. Talking is transactional, either a business deal is going on or shut up. I've been in the USA for a long time and as an introverted person I'm mostly ok with that, but whenever I'm back home I realize how much I miss talking to random people.
Don't talk to me though, while I am trying to do focused work ...
Or other people who are really busy right now, but in general yes, most people enjoy random interactions and talks. And most people do have interesting things to share. You have to have genuine interest, though. Don't force it - but be open for it. Make eye contact first and then you might connect. It is astonishing how many grim looking people suddenly start to smile and act friendly, if you just start a friendly conversation with them. Even if it is just a exchange of a simple comments.
I can't recommend being intentionally rude so that you can get practice dealing with people who are pissed off at you. Learning how to tell when it's a bad time to strike up a conversation with a stranger will be a much greater benefit for anyone looking to meet women or even for someone just working on being friendlier/more social. There'll be no shortage of opportunities to learn how to deal with rejection even without being a pest.
When I was staying with my older brothers, one of their magazines was along the lines of maybe a GQ but in the 90’s, iirc I was probably in middle school, and probably reading content a bit above my age level in terms of concept.
One of their articles though was about “talking to women” but it also emphasized just talking to _anyone_. It had suggestions like “if you’re out at the bar, just ask to sit with a random group, introduce yourself, and have a conversation.”
Many years later in college, I did indeed try this at a bar and was pleasantly surprised. I didn’t make any long term friends, or find a new partner, but I did really start honing the skill of being social with anyone. It’s hard, and especially for me and my social anxiety, it has also really helped me feel more comfortable in places unfamiliar and people unknown.
It really helps to learn in an environment where failure isn't emotionally catastrophic. If you only talk to people that are interesting or important to you, then you can end up learning the wrong things because failure hits so hard. The desperation this can create will further serve to drive people away!
People need to feel like it's safe to develop relations with you, rather than like you're trying to manipulate them into doing so, which is what happens when you learn only from very hard failures.
I found mixed results given underlying anxiety that hadn't been diagnosed at the point I was trying this. Talking to new people at work, while out pursuing hobbies, and around town, all accrued to more and better conversations.
It was a much bigger struggle with conversations where I was putting extra pressure on myself. Being able to have those other conversations was helpful though. Eventually, I found a therapist and am in a better place with this.
Letting curiosity be the motivator behind starting these conversations and cultivating curiosity more broadly can help -- or at least I have found it to be helpful in making initiating feel less forced. I wonder about people's jobs or the reasons they are visiting a place or what they think about what's happening nearby, or just generally who they are.
One antipattern I've encountered with this approach tho is that sometimes anxious people will exhaust their conversation partners with a battery of questions. Even if thoughtful, this can sometimes have the effect of exhausting your partner, and tends to keep the conversation steered away from actual connection. YMMV, but either way be mindful and make it a point to share yourself
You teach yourself to say no, to the things you don't want to do.
I considered leaving just that pithy reply, because that's really it. But some of the extra context; It's not a bother to ask someone to hold the door they're already going through because your hands are full. Starting a conversation is about as intrusive as that. The vast majority of people don't mind making some small talk, and ontop of that, the majority can make an excuse if they don't have time. You only assume they can't politely decline, because you can't. Once you learn to say no thanks, politely, but explicitly and directly. You'll actually understand and expect others to return the favor.
That's a much more fair way to interact with people too.
I'd add also that learning to hear someone tell you no and not taking it to heart and getting on with your life. So many people walk through life being afraid of hearing someone reply "no" to them, like its some existential rejection of them and that stops them from doing many things.
I'll make chit chat with anyone, and people who dont want to chat with are generally pretty explicit about saying they dont want to chat or don't have time, or pretty obviously implicit about it by not engaging or looking for ways out.
Yeah this is the way. You will lightly bother some people by being talkative. But it’s ok. So long as you’re sensitive to their desire not to talk, you’ll be fine. Nobody will murder you in the night or kick you out of the village.
I live in an apartment (condo). I’ve been practicing making small talk with people in the elevator. The conversations aren’t all winners. Lots of people are closed off or don’t want to chat. But no matter. Elevator conversations are disposable. And most people are genuinely lovely. It’s a fun challenge trying to brighten the days of strangers.
For me that clicked we are all just kids. Your parents are struggling with some problems in everyday life as you are. Your teachers sometimes might say they don't know the answer to your question in their field which is alright. (Parents and teachers are two figures who we look up to.) My point is that if you're thinking, "they have much more experience and I don't, so no need to bother them.." you're wrong. Basically, they could have more things, but about same lot of problems in the life as you. After that, just start asking simple questions.
As the article says, you just take the risk. Maybe you will bother the person. It’s okay, you’ll be able to quickly tell if you do, and you just gracefully back away and go on with your day. It’ll probably happen much less than you think.
I concur. And would just add two points:
(1) Make it that you’re not asking for anything / don’t open with something that could be perceived as a setup to asking for money, or pushing a religion. :)
2) be sensitive to social cues or that they want to be left alone, like terse answers or shifting their attention away from you
I’ve found it can be helpful to shift your own attention after someone answers you, but not to a phone (which just makes you look like you’re communicating with someone else).
Look at a flyer on the wall, or your beverage if you’re in a bar, and they’ll follow up if they want to talk and appreciate the reduced pressure either way.
And yeah, never open a conversation with something like “can I ask you a question?” which is usually a trick of a salesperson or beggar to make you acknowledge them and start saying yes.
This actually jives with my personal experience living in NYC.
New Yorkers have a reputation for being stone cold with strangers, but the truth is that anytime somebody approaches you out of the blue, there's an assumption that they're about to ask for money or try to get in your pants. Once you demonstrate you're not looking for either (or, if the second I suppose, that you're at least smooth enough for it not to be immediately evident), people are generally really kind. With some exceptions, I've usually found that the coldest looking person will stop to give a lost tourist directions if it's clear they're in need.
I'm trying to figure out in what situation asking someone a general question like 'how is your day going?' going to have lasting negative consequences.
Lasting consequences include social outcasting and even dismissal. Those are pretty lasting.
>Just don’t make things a big deal
That sadly doesn't stop the runmors from flowing. That's the real damning thing about such social faux pas. Your reputation can be ruined without having a single person say it to your face. That's both unsettling and morbid for how you look to humanity.
You have to mess up pretty badly for this to happen. Most people would be a lot less worried what others think of them if they realized how rarely the do.
The reality is that most people are too busy thinking about themselves to spend any time thinking about you or a random little interaction that didn’t land
Would you be bothered if a stranger struck up a nice conversation with you? Most people like it! And even if they don’t, that’s ok, trust people to tell you their boundaries and respect them when they do. Nothing wrong with bothering someone if they tell you or send a strong signal and you respect it.
I'm from the US and not the Midwest. Not rural either. If I'm clearly doing something it might bother me, otherwise I would find it nice to meet someone new. I have mild asd and large gatherings cause anxiety, but if I'm just sitting people watching or on a stroll, talking to one or two people wouldn't bother or stress me.
> Would you be bothered if a stranger struck up a nice conversation with you?
Yes. If I am basically anywhere there are other people, I am there for a specific reason, and anyone trying to talk to me for anything else is bothering me. I've found that most people that try to start conversations with strangers are really poor at reading signals that their actions are unwanted and they only stop when you say something so out of their comfort zone they have no idea how to handle it. They just can't understand that people wouldn't want to talk to them.
And after this article and thread, we can add I don't want to be your practice dummy to the reasons you're bothering me.
The example in the article is a waiting room. Or you could be waiting to catch the subway, or in line at the grocery store. In those situations how is somebody trying to talk to you preventing you from completing your task? Otherwise you're probably just scrolling your phone; sometimes I fill these gaps with things like podcasts, but even then it's not like what I'm doing is urgent.
I usually just start with a small harmless joke about the current situation we're both in. People either don't respond to it, and I leave them alone, or they engage and a conversation commences.
All of these have to be told light-hearted, as observational "jokes". Not like you are actually annoyed. You're just making light of a situation.
"I guess the bus is just never on time here, huh"
(Stuck in line at the grocers) "Friday evening rush-hour"
Same kind of thing with whatever you are observing, at the Doctor, in the gym, waiting for the light to turn, etc, etc.
It's all shit jokes if you can even call them that. But the purpose isn't to start a standup routine, it's to share a situation with a stranger and open up the floor to conversation. You are basically just indicating to a stranger: "Hey, I'm open for conversation", they can then choose to respond or just ignore the remark. Then you go from there.
I think that it comes down to that people often like to talk about their interests but worry that the recipient may not be. So we end up with two people who want to talk but worried about the others feelings.
These are called questions. They’re great. Hell, if you want to be regarded as a great conversationalist and great storyteller, all you have to do is ask questions.
Most people crave conversation and interaction. Those that are busy enough to potentially really be bothered will either show that clearly, or tell you so.
If the answer is, "of course not". Pull that thread. Honestly, so much "therapy" for some of us boils down to confronting/examining that disconnect and exploring why it exists/how it came to be.
Not the guy you asked, but my answer is: only if they are panhandling. Otherwise I usually feel a little surprised that someone would have any interest in my thoughts. So I feel a bit tickled if they have genuine interest.
I genuinely get bothered when someone talks to me. I am typically rushing through my day to do stuff, whether it is hiking, grocery shopping, working out, or going to the restroom at work, and getting interrupted feels to me like getting an unwanted push notification on your phone.
When someone occasionally engages, I extremely quickly dismiss them in the most polite, but firm, way possible. I also intentionally keep a demeanor that generally signals I’m not open to random conversations (I avoid eye contact etc.), but that often doesn’t work. At the gym it is particularly problematic, I’m focusing on gathering strength for my next set and sometimes people bother you even if I am wearing headphones.
I truly do not have a problem with who I am, I’m comfortable in my shoes.
As such, never in a million years I would approach a stranger to strike up a conversation, it would seem an incredibly rude thing to do towards them, on top of clearly not having any desire to engage from my side.
I’ll talk for hours straight to my wife, close family and the very few friends I have though!
Fascinating how much this varies by culture too. People generally have attitudes similar to you in Nordic countries, or even Seattle, but then you go to South American countries, or India, and it feels like everyone talks to everyone all the time.
I am bothered by random people wanting to talk to me -> Randomly talking to other people would bother them -> Bothering people is rude -> Randomly talking to people is rude.
Hence why the platinum rule is better. Once you know that other people (apparently!) aren't bothered by randomly striking up a conversation, you can adjust your actions accordingly.
My grandpa had a gift for people - the man could start a conversation with anyone, form fast friends and remember their spouse’s middle name in twenty years.
As he put it, it’s a coin toss. Maybe you’re bothering them or maybe they’re grateful to have someone to distract them. Each is equally true before you start the conversation.
The key is being able to read social cues. If you can, you can stop bothering them.
Obviously this works only if you are an extrovert. Introverts would find this kind of interaction a wasteful use of limited social energy available to them.
I have ADHD with terrible social anxiety, and conventional treatments only help so much.
I know I can eventually beat it, and I'm so happy for you and everyone who beats social anxiety. You are my idols!
That said, I don't like it when someone says "yeah just do it, it's possible". It's not possible to just do it. Yeah only doing the thing is doing the thing and preparing to do it is not doing the thing, I get it. On the other hand, you can also jump off a cliff without checking your parachute, just saying.
Not sure why you got downvoted with a perfectly valid opinion!
I’ve done what OP describes but I’m heavily introverted and likely HSP too. I’m pretty good at it but it’s incredibly exhausting. My father is exactly the same way.
As I get older, the more I consider self care and prioritising my own needs over others to be happy. To that end, I much prefer to keep to myself and so I do.
However it doesn’t stop me from engaging in impromptu conversations. I just don’t go out of my way to talk to literally everyone.
Strong words. I'd like to understand your choice of words here.
> Categorizing yourself
Also known as knowing yourself, your strengths, and your weaknesses.
> purposefully stunt your growth
A wild assumption that talking to everyone will magically let you grow. Some people just prefer to focus on people that matter to them.
> ... reduce opportunity for growth
By choosing to compete in an area that is your weakness, you already limited your growth potential.
> ... wasteful use of life
So refusing to talk to everyone is a wasteful use of life. Again, I find it more wasteful to talk to anyone instead of people who matter to me. Unless it's fun, of course.
To summarize, the suggestion was to live like you live in the Midwest outside of urban/suburban areas. That's very funny to me.
My spouse had a hard time acclimating to rural Midwest life after living in a mega city on the East Coast. She complained that everything takes an extra half hour for time spent standing around talking about nothing.
It never dawned on me that if you're from a place, like a large city, where interacting with strangers or very distant acquaintances isn't encouraged, that this would not be a natural part of life.
I find this interesting but don't know what to do with that.
Yup. I’m super social and extroverted, in the sense that I love meeting new people and if I’m introduced to anyone I make connections easily. But I can’t in a million years be the one breaking the ice.
This is in big part due to being born and raised in a large European capital. There’s unwritten barriers you respect as a social rule, and if someone breaks the rule you assume they’re trying to sell something or scam you. To me talking to a stranger unprompted feels as out of place as pulling my pants down in public.
It’s natural for these barriers to exist to make dense spaces liveable, but they do constrain you.
I used to live in a rural area and I found it so claustrophobic. I hate living in a place where I've seen everyone's face, know every street and every building. It feels so limiting, there's nothing to explore, no magic shops or communities to discover.
And also, I really hated the religious mindset with all the little rules they have, the hatred for lgbt people, single parents, foreigners etc. There were good people too but you always had to watch who was around to have a chat. I'm very progressive and atheist. And very alternative.
My ex who was from this community even got in trouble with some parents because she told the kids she was minding that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Apparently it's normal to deny all the progress we have made as a society.
I just couldn't deal with it, it just made me so depressed. And this wasn't even in the US but just in Europe.
In the city it's much easier to find open-minded people. And the ones who aren't don't control public life. I don't ever want to live in a rural area again after that (though in fairness I do have some ptsd from it).
I live in a rural area (not in the US though). Everyone knows I'm a weirdo, and almost all of them are cool with it. This is how people lose their prejudices - they meet a foreigner, or a single mother, or a gay person, and they discover that they like them
"EXCUSE ME, SIR! I see you are moving with great intention. Might your hurriedness be in connection with those papers you hold in your hand? Pray tell, for I much desire to converse! Aah, I see, I was right to assume you were in a hurry. Anyway, it must be wonderful to be working at a place as beautiful as this, is it not? Hah ha ha yees, isn't it wonderful. Well, alright then be on your way if you must."
Sorry but I couldn't help imagining you as the fake health inspector from Fawlty Towers while reading your comment.
I do agree with you though, talking is great, we are social animals even though modern life allows us to forget this, to our own detriment.
Until you run into an A-hole whose response ruins the rest of your day when you were just trying to be sociable. I could even see getting physically assaulted for trying to talk to the wrong stranger. I like where your heart is at, unfortunately many people out there are not deserving of it.
The idea of practicing these random interactions is also to get accustomed to rejections from the assholes.
After all, they aren’t the majority- most people are actually quite nice and often appreciate a company (or will politely tell you they don’t need one)
Agreeable comments will draw comparatively fewer replies, while disagreeable ones achieve the opposite.
But this then results in a "false experience" for the individual, where unlike in real life, the bad exchanges do not end up outweighed by the good ones, as you simply don't go on to have those. You just upvote and move on (often to avoid redundancy).
Maybe if the two were tied together (voting either up / down & sending a reply), communities would work healthier? I don't know. Not like it's easy to have this tried out.
I could definitely see challenges to this though, the aforementioned redundancy being one. I have some countermeasure ideas, but then I wonder if that would make the UX complicated enough to drive people away instead, which is a lose-lose.
I mean, why does it ruin your day? It's just some random person - you'll likely never see them again, or you'll know to avoid them in the future. Why is the opinion of some rando weighing on you so much?
This whole thread is about wanting to talk with strangers because it makes you feel good, if approval from strangers makes you feel good the natural corollary is rejection from strangers can also make you feel bad. It would be bit weird to go out of your way to talk to people because you'd enjoy their kindness but then when they're unkind turn around all like "oh I never cared about you anyway". Isn't it?
have you had actually negative interactions like that? they sting for years, even after hundreds of mild-to-positive ones. the brain focuses on risk-minimization and not reward-maximization.
My brain on a Monday in a crap mood driving on the highway: that jerk that just cut me off has ruined my entire day.
My brain on Friday after good sleep and a relaxing morning: heh look at the guy, he's definitely in a hurry. Hope he gets where he's going, back to my jams!
I try to train myself to remember to be Friday brain, but sometimes Monday brain comes out and I'm in a funk that makes me forget I actually have a choice about NOT reacting a specific way. I like to think I'm getting better at consistently not sweating the small stuff and just letting those instances go without giving them an appreciable amount of mental space better suited to relaxing and listening to good music.
This will never be me (I find any kind of smalltalk excruciating). But I'm so grateful, not to say relieved, that there are people like you. Society needs you.
It's great as long as they don't turn out to be a creep. And that's terrible advice for practicing talking to women. Talking to a person you're attracted to, or want anything from in general, isn't going to present the same way. No matter how much you practice. Attractive women have to deal with that, all day, every day. They'll shut it down quickly if they're not interested. You'll be the creep if you don't quietly take the hint, and walk away, when they're not.
I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
I did this a few times and it surprisingly worked. I was able to make small talk about an article I was reading. Did it matter that I didn't come off with the confidence of Tony Robbins? No.
Please also recognize when others don't really want to talk. Not everybody want to go beyond cultural niceties of a smile and "hi, how you doing". I don't want to be a jerk, but I also don't like to talk to random strangers.
An old guy sat at the table next to mine at an outdoor cafe. I don't remember what I said to start the conversation but he told me he'd lived in Japan for 3yrs in the 50s, married a Japanese woman, they moved to Redondo Beach and she convinced him to buy a house more than they could afford. He said it was the best decision of their lives. He then said she'd past away a few years ago and they had no kids.
I ask him what he thought of the population crisis Japan is facing. He said said that was bullshit and that 8 billion people in the world are way too many.
While I don't agree about population either way, in my lifetime it's grown from about 3 billion to over 8 billion. This has been quite a ride. Also, there's a world of a difference between global carrying capacity with responsible aliens managing, and our current management.
Why so quick to moralize? What makes you think your perspective on world population is justified and his isn't?
This could have been an opportunity for both of you to understand each other's perspective. That's why you asked their thoughts on the matter right? It's a shame you let that pass you by.
I asked his thoughts on the matter because I assumed he didn't want to see Japan end since he had a connection to it. But, he didn't give a fuck if they ended, nor Korea.
And if you think they'y aren't ending, you need to go look at the numbers and then look at the double speak on solutions. There are no known solutions. Every solution requires a miracle that has never happened.
Thank you for explaining. Could be he's a misanthrope, through life experiences or such.
I share the same sentiments as you, it'd be a tragic loss. But saying they'd "end" is well, unlikely. The countries will shrink. Japan population could reach 60M by 2100 if nothing is done. That's still a lot of people and by then other factors will dominate and fertility may rise again.
Humans are adaptive and a lot can change in half a century, so I would not overly index on what projections say. Everything would need to stay static for the projections to matter, which given the rate of technological changes and geopolitical tension, sounds likely.
My recently deceased mother had a talent for talking to anyone at any time in any language. She's always been incredibly social and could establish connections with strangers very rapidly. One time she brought in a school teacher/sheep farmer from Dagestan selling yarn from his sheep's wool, she met him at the market and bought all yarn and asked if he had somewhere to stay before going back, and he didn't. He stayed in our house for a couple of nights, and then we visited him in that little village in mountains of Dagestan on a summer vacation, talk about going back a few centuries in time, an incredible and unusual experience.
I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses. Her memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
It served her very well in her chosen career of real estate sales, although I think she'd might have done really well in community organizing or even politics where those skills are also very useful.
On the flip side, it was sometimes difficult to be there as family wanting some attention, since her bright light was always shining in many directions.
I've inherited just some of that talent, and I think it is a talent, but trainable.
> I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses. Her memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
I love this story, because I had the same experience. When my dad passed, I had the same 500 email limitation, and had to send out multiple waves of emails through Gmail. He was loved by so many people!
I talk to everyone. My friends and family joke that it’s impossible for me to go anywhere without getting into conversation with someone. I can’t imagine not doing it. Earlier this year I walked down the main shopping street it the part of the large city where I live, with a colleague from out of town.
A few shopkeepers waved through their windows as I went past, the greengrocer came out of his shop to have a quick chat, the dry cleaner asked after my dog, and the guy from the household shop told me they have more of the cleaning paste I use. We bumped into a couple of folk I see every couple of weeks, then got a coffee and I paid the “special” rate rather than the rate on the sign that they charge people they don’t know.
My colleague said - half jokingly - “I didn’t realise you were mayor”, and tried to convince me that I should go into local politics. She couldn’t understand when I said that would take all the pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous.
I can’t imagine not talking to people. A while back I changed the route I take when I walk my dogs each day, and the guy who runs the local fish stall started asking people if I had left the area or died. I don’t buy fish from him each week- but every time I see him stop and we have a chat.
I feel incredibly lucky to be missed by my fishmonger just because I started walking my dogs a different route.
I grew up in a tiny village in the country. The building I live in has hundreds of people living in it, compared to the few dozen houses where I grew up. I think talking to people makes a huge city feel smaller.
It doesn't really matter what you have to say or ask - basically the point of small talk is to express to people "I like you!". Just try to find something to like and the conversation comes (not always, but usually)
> talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous
Only if you let it! I am guessing you would do well, because people can absolutely tell when you are being a smarmy politician and when you're actually a legitimately friendly, decent person.
It’s still tainted though. Even if OP buries that underlying transaction, the other people he is talking to might (like I would) assume OP is bullshitting to placate me and secure my vote.
Having the kind of network and connections you do connects you with the actual needs of your community
At which point, it's not necessarily Transactional, but fostering connection and collaboration in order to create win-win situations for everyone in your community.
Should be, absolutely. But isn’t where I am. People who go into local politics here seem to be interested in elevating their profile, having influence, or money.
> She couldn’t understand when I said that would take all the pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous.
It doesn't have to and I suspect that's why your colleague suggested it. Politicians act that way because that's what people want except they don't want someone who is acting.
You have what politicians pretend to have because it makes people like them.
You might be a terrible politician for other reasons but I don't think what you've said is true.
There are plenty of politicians who get into politics precisely because they love interacting with everyone.
It doesn't take the pleasure out of it, it doesn't make it transactional. It just gives them incredible job fulfillment, at least in that part of it.
Bill Clinton was famous for this. It was incredibly frustrating to his staff because he was constantly late for his next event, because he always wanted to keep talking to the people he'd just met. They'd have to build in buffer time to plan around it, because otherwise it wound up disrupting his schedule and logistics too much.
I would have rather said he was arguing with who you about who you each think you can be. That is different. The question is whether or not you think you can remain a genuine and caring person while being a politician.
It makes me sad that my reaction to this piece is so cynical, but I really think that 90% of the "how" in this article is "be an older British lady". If you're missing that vital piece you'll quickly meet many people who "don't have any money", or just remembered they meant to be walking on the other side of the street, or worse. Talking to strangers when people see you as a threat feels really shitty (for everyone involved) and can be dangerous.
I think you're wrong personally. I'm very far away from being "an older British lady" and agree a lot with the article.
Honestly, in the least combative & confrontational possible, your thoughts there are just an excuse to not reach out and engage with the rest of your world. It's a little sad (not you, the situation itself) because if more people had that same thought, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with no one talking to each other and those people you allude to being an afraid to talk too for whatever reason become the only people out there talking. We're certainly not there yet and I hope we never get there
I agree that it's a sad state of affairs, and a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe I can explain my perspective in a little more detail.
In my typical day at work (teacher), I spend hours talking with dozens of people. A large part of why I chose this work was to escape the isolation that I felt previously when I was doing remote software work. I attend weekly religious services and make an effort to stay for the social hour afterwards. When I go to parties, I don't feel like I have an unusually hard time talking with people. I'm not always as engaged with the world as I'd like, but I don't feel that I'm avoiding it either.
But this article isn't broadly about having conversations with new people: it's about approaching strangers in public settings one-on-one (the article mentions a bus stop, the street, and a mostly empty train carriage), where there's no expectation of social interaction. This is a different situation with its own set of pitfalls. Nobody is going to assume that I'm trying to rob them when I introduce myself at Quaker meeting. No one is going to think I'm a creep for asking a student about their hobbies while I'm at school. We don't see articles about people getting shot for starting up a conversation at a party.
But all of that goes out the window in the settings that the author describes. It's funny, the author mentions feeling like it was "rude and unsafe" to start a chat during the pandemic. I felt like talking to strangers in public got much easier during the pandemic, when people were desperate for any sort of in-person conversation. It's the normal times when this sort of interaction feels rude and unsafe.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic, maybe it would be fine for me to let my guard down a little. I think that loneliness is a huge issue these days and I'm grateful for the efforts people are making (including the author of the article) to address it. But approaching strangers in public in the way the author describes is a special case that is *much* more fraught than other types of social interaction, and is a lot harder for certain people to do successfully. I wish it weren't that way, and maybe it's worth pushing back against, but that doesn't change the current reality. Some people might not feel this way, but they're probably the people for whom it's not true.
This was an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing it. Its all very geographical context dependent I suspect and that's where difference in perspective can be quite different.
One thing though is why you see new people as any different than strangers? I'm not a Quaker or ever attended a quaker meeting (but have always liked the ethos of the vibe) so don't know how that goes. But i've spent time in christian churches in my younger days and even though we were all there for the same reason, those people were still also strangers. Some already had their cliques they'd speak to and catch up with and I'm sure if someone outside that spoke to them the same double take that initially occurs talking to any new person or stranger would still occur there. Some people would want to continue chatting, some people would rather just talk to whoever they were talking to before. But its still fundamentally the same thing as talking to (or attempting to talk to and being shutdown by) someone doing the same thing you are currently doing, whether that's being on a train or sitting at a cafe etc.
So be an older British lady? You get to decide how people see you. Hair, clothes, body language, smile, is 90% of how people decide whether they want to interact with you.
When I dye my hair all kinds of colors, random people talk to me (and the specific colors even dictate who talks). When I dress up in a suit, people treat me more seriously. When I dress like a contractor and drive my truck, regular dudes talk to me at gas stations. And when I dress queer, women (and some dudes) smile at me.
I'm not even outgoing personality-wise, which would help more. Personality's the mental equivalent of physical appearance. Think of it like acting: actors pretend to be a certain way, and if it feels genuine, it makes us love or hate them, intrigued or bored. It's a lot more work than changing clothes, but it works no matter what you wear.
I don't think older British lady is in the cards for me but I get your point. One of my friends has a dog (a very cute little yorkie) who I take on walks fairly often. Let me tell you: I get so many people coming up to me wanting to talk when I'm out walking that dog. It's like I'm suddenly transported to a different universe where people are 100x more sociable.
It makes sense: people love dogs. It gives us something in common and is a starting point for conversation. And people with cute dogs seem much less threatening.
But I also kind of resent it. I wish people would want to talk to me when I'm just me.
Don’t feel bad please. There’s a flip side to all these sociable people which you are sensing. It’s the fallacy of “winning friends and influencing people”. Suppose you are sociable and use the tricks to get to know people (take an interest in their interest, ask for favors, etc) the reality is it will almost never be reciprocated. You get a bunch of people to like you but they will never know you because they’re pitiful and shallow. After a while you will resent them and just skip it all.
> You get to decide how people see you. Hair, clothes, body language, smile, is 90% of how people decide whether they want to interact with you.
I see what you're getting at, but also this take kinda annoys me because it falls into the bucket of implying a personal fault. If people don't socialise with you then it must be because you do or don't do X, Y, Z. "Just do X" and you'll become a social butterfly.
Based on my personal experience, I don't know if I buy it. I guess I'm a regular enough guy, but seriously almost never, across my whole life, does someone invoke random socialisation with me. Yet I know people who can't even take the bus without strangers striking up conversations and hassling them, while they are actively trying to be antisocial. What magic trick are these people performing? Can I learn the same trick? What if I don't want to perform it? I think the reality is that for some (many?) people, it just doesn't work out and it's not necessarily due to any particular flaw.
Yeah. That's something I constantly worry about. If I'm in a random scene, most people don't want a large black man approaching them. The calculus completely changes.
That's why I gotta pick my venues. But those venues are shrinking and growing farther apart.
I usually avoid strangers, because those who talk to you are usually weirdos.
Thing is, if normal people don't talk to strangers anymore, then only the weirdos are left, reinforcing the idea that only weirdos talk to strangers...
+1 In any major city it's probably 90% chance they're either a crook trying to scam you out of something or mentally not quite right. The remaining 10% will be tourists or people from outside of the major city.
"Someday - and that day may never come" - they will be asking for something. Now you are on talking terms and it will be harder to refuse the ask, compared to the request of a complete stranger.
This is sad but not inconsistent with my experience. Though I think 10% is actually the people who genuinely want to have a nice conversation. and I think that worth putting up witrh the rest 90% for.
I understand what both of you are saying, I lived in areas where if someone is talking to you on the street theres a high chance theyre asking you for something, so you learn to just kinda block all of it out. Now that I moved to a smaller town, I find myself talking to strangers much more frequently.
In my experience, only weirdos never speak to strangers. Social skills are easy, conversations are easy and strangers are just people you don’t know yet.
I still can’t understand the point of this. Do you get a charge telling social anxious people they’ll be weird if they do their homework? That’s precisely what you did. Why?
I live in NYC. Maybe this is different in the suburbs. Nearly 100% of the people that approach me are trying to get something from me. Scam me, get me to sign something I don't want to sign, get me to donate my money to save the dogs/children/etc.
If someone on the street tries to talk to me, I try to avoid even looking at them or acknowledging them. They'll use that as an opening. Just keep walking.
Well, that's your experience. Some people live in places where most strangers that talk to you are wierdos. Some of us live in places where most strangers on the street are actually dangerous (and I'm not talking about NYC or any place in America, I'm talking about actual criminal hotspots, which is the reality of a huge portion of humanity you probably don't think about).
I hate it when strangers try to talk to me in public (e.g., on public transportation, at work). I absolutely do not care what you have to say, what you do, how your day went, how many pets you have, what your hobbies are, or where you spent your holidays, and at the same time, in no way do I want to share any of my personal details, not out of privacy or anxiety but out of sheer annoyance and indifference. However, I do not want to insult the person that tries to talk to me in any way, so I just stay silent and try to endure this torturous assault on my ears until I find a suitable moment to get away.
I had a long conversation with a fellow parent sitting next to me at soccer practice today. Never met her before in my life, but we just started chatting about soccer logistics, and then I just started asking her about her life. I learned about her 5 kids, her tough relationship situation with her spouse of 16 years, her having moved here from Arkansas as a child, her feelings about how gentrification damaging local communities, her dream of moving out of the USA to another country, how there are the same kinds of social problems most places, how we can come to empathize more with our parents as we get older, and probably more things too I'm not remembering. These are the kinds of things you can talk about if you happen to have good rapport with someone and they feel like it...
I won't say I have conversations with strangers like that all the time, but it is 100% possible, and a lot of people really do appreciate it if you bother to talk to them. People often like being asked about themselves (I used to do cultural anthropology research so I have had quite a bit of practice too...).
There are of course reasons why it doesn't always work or becomes awkward. For example, gender is a factor - a significant part of the population is much more comfortable having same-sex conversations with strangers - not to mention other sociological factors around race, class, nationality, all the obvious things.
I went through a phase where I forced myself to socialise a lot to overcome social awkwardness and anxiety. Was well worth it, both in terms of leveling up my social skills but also in terms of eventually becoming very comfortable with myself.
The main ingredient, at least for me, was being determined enough to push through the discomfort. A lot of the early interactions were awkward, sometimes overtly uncomfortable, but that's an unavoidable part of the learning process (and I took a key lesson from it - it's okay to look like a dork, usually it's only our inner critic that turns it into an immortal sin).
Nowadays I feel a pang of sympathy when I see someone feeling shy or speaking in self-deprecating terms. I remember how that felt, and I remember how easy it would have been to have stayed inside that box for the rest of my life.
I am still at the awkward early interaction stage.
How do you know what to say?, usually I can start the conversation but I don’t know where to take it after. How are you able to shift to the next stage when you have both agreed that the weather today is nice.
How do you get over the feeling that you are wasting their time?
Finally, how do you end the conversation where you might still be going the same way or waiting at the same place?
A tip from a past life working a customer service / food service job:
Learn a few words in a variety of languages. They are great conversation starters / expanders – I made a lot of actual friendships by talking to people (after taking their orders), asking them where they’re from, and then knowing a few words in their language. Nothing makes people happier than hearing someone speak their native language, no matter how poorly.
This was in a university town, so knowing a couple words in Chinese, Arabic, Hindi, etc. was useful.
My kids make fun of me because I know the shopkeepers around me by first name, along with the details of their businesses , and that shopping takes forever because I talk to everyone, customers included.
I just love it, it’s easy and I get a lot in return - from perks to incredible encounters. At work it’s been very helpful.
I developed that skill while traveling alone for a year , and it boils down to practicing and reading whether the person you’re talking to is ok with your talking or not.
And now because I know them I go there because I can buy my stuff but also spend five minutes chatting and that makes going grocery shopping a real joy. And because I go there and chat they do nice things like give me a couple of tomatoes or “you’ve got to try this cake” or the wine shop where I automatically get a 15% discount, or the butcher where they let me in when are already closed but they know I’ve come over specially.
And some of those people have become real friends, like go and have dinner together friends. We have very different lives but we get on because we get on. I think everyone benefits from reaching out of their bubble a bit.
If I’m feeling a bit glum I’ll go out to buy bread or something because I know just seeing the people I see regularly will lift me up.
I'm not an extrovert. Introversion itself was probably more of a euphemism that I used to rationalize something closer to social anxiety.
But I feel I'm better off now for doing what the article suggested, over the last 5-6 years. Doing so improved my knowledge, my empathy, grew my revenue, built larger professional networks, introduced me to hobby networks, and helped with better financial planning.
I even changed to the extent of actually looking forward to outreach activities that involve a lot of conversations. I find them very satisfying because they help me understand social realities and people better than social media and books and help me develop empathy.
I wouldn't say I'm now an extrovert. My personality still prefers a lot of alone time. There are times when I still don't feel like talking to anyone. But they're now for positive reasons like books to finish rather than negative reasons like social anxiety.
I now tend to see things like introversion and social anxiety as obstacles. One can rationalize them in many ways but they'll remain objective obstacles IMO.
the dictatorship is doing extremely badly then because in my experience roughly the last two decades have consisted of safety obsession, various 'cozy' aesthetics that don't involve leaving your house, the death of social drinking and an uptick of pills and psychological diagnoses and people staring into their phones on every occasion.
We've completely normalized being a shut-in to the point where your take, that it's authoritarian to push people out into the world and engage others, is quite common. What now passes for 'extroverted' used to be known as the human condition. Even extroverts today probably have fewer friends, smaller families and spend more time isolated and on screens than 99% of humanity.
I had a recent encounter with a guy in a coffee shop who approached me and wanted to discuss recent sportsball games in great detail. I had no idea what he was talking about, I don't even know the local teams, after living here 30 years. He had no other topics.
I had a friend like that. Soccer soccer soccer. His soccer knowledge was impeccable. But he allowed almost no space in his life for anything else. A kind of addiction. He had no other interests, didn't read about anything else.
There's only so mach a person can take being on the other side of someone like that. We drifted apart...
Yeah, that's issue #2 or 3 with me. My life has pretty much been minmaxed to be the stereotypical nerd. I don't have much "small talk" topics to approach with.
I want to change that too, but that involves time for hobbies instead of job searching and worrying about debt.
It is a hard skill, but I do recommend it. I have always struggled with initiating a conversation with a stranger, but 99 times out of 100 it has turned out well. My teenage daughter just stands there agape when I do it, she is still struggling even to speak up to the cashier taking her fast food order. I keep telling her that it makes me pretty nervous too, but it is so worth taking the little leap.
Sometimes I want to strike up a conversation but get no reaction or even a dismissive glance and get ignored. It feels like the universe has a script and I went off track.
ok it's a bit late but i think a big part is the non-verbal thing you're putting out.
my story is me and my wife moved to another country a few years ago for my study. after 4 months moving there, she already know and conversed with the people working the apartment and some neighbors. while i mostly just exchanged cursories and nods and glances. then one day we just walked out together and the same people i passed earlier just says hello and converse and stuff with my wife and me. yes she's very much an extrovert but i can see people are way 'more open' and my wife has that too. me on the other hand do have 'i don't want to bother you so please don't bother me' vibe.
I've had to force myself to be more social in some instances in order to set an example, specifically for my niece who has/had quite a bit of social anxiety. Being a regular at the local Friday night rollerskating, I got to know quite a few of the other regulars, including younger ones my niece's age, and was able to kind of slowly break down the social anxiety barrier such that my niece is now part of this group of (now) late teens / early 20's "kids" and their social group just seems to keep growing. Seeing my niece able to be comfortably herself with these peers just makes me feel good in the small part I was able to play.
People, in most part, are good. Some are really quite lovely such that it reminds me of Bilbo's birthday speech:
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve"
One of my best stranger conversations talking to a “Big Issue” [1] seller outside a supermarket. As I understand, they’re (close to) homeless usually.
When I asked about him, he mentioned he’s Irish but moved on to tell me about his plans. How he was saving to have a farm, planned what to grow, animals - 15m of quite precise description. His story was his future.
This was striking for me - when asked most people tell you about their past, where they’re coming from. It was the first time I realised that where we’re going should be a bigger part of our story and identity.
I try to keep that conversation in mind as a lesson, and as a reminder to talk to people around.
As someone who has struggled with social anxiety over the years and has thought about this a lot, I have some thoughts.
It's all nice to imagine everyone talking to each other, but the reality is that in (western?) society, we have kinda collectively decided that socialisation is to be avoided. Either it's too weird, too boring, or too unsafe. I mean have you tried randomly talking to people? Most don't seem very open to it.
Also it doesn't help that the little "pretext" scenarios that can lead to socialising are being systematically eliminated from our lives.
And finally, if you're neurodivergent or otherwise aren't perfectly typical, enjoy people thinking you're weird anyway.
Yes, there is a pervasive anxiety around strangers and impromptu socializing among younger millennials and Gen Z particularly in North America and parts of Europe, and across age groups in certain subcultures. There are lots of causes for this, but this phenomenon is neither as entrenched nor as universal as you might think and the dangers are basically infinitesimal (zero for all intents and purposes). If you are respectful and mindful of how you engage, the overwhelming majority of people will at worst ignore you. Which sucks, yes, but more than likely they won't even do that, i.e. they'll probably reciprocate
I agree re the pretext scenarios disappearing and re neurodivergence adding extra challenges.
RE the former: there are lots more of these pretext scenarios than you might realize
RE the latter, I realize it's not your point but for what it's worth, you won't really be able to tell in most cases that someone on the street or wherever is or isn't nd. Meaning: there's a good chance that the person you are talking to is nd themselves. Lots of us are pros at masking
In general though i would say to be careful when generalizing about human behavior in a way that causes you to implement and enforce rules / limitations on your own behavior in response. This is unavoidable, right? And yes, there's often an nd component to this. But especially as you get older, these can start to calcify and limit you in increasingly destructive ways
It's indeed pretty interesting how our society has normalized being. what I would say is antisocial by the norms of previous generations in the form of the gen z stare.
Funnilly I remember a situation where I got a job offer from somebody from an older generation and I just stood still and stared for 1 minute. Not because I wanted to be disrespectful but because I was processing the information and I was simply so baffled that I forgot the social dance of showing the thinking on my face and doing thinking sounds (if you know you know). This led to the other person holding a lecture on how you should respond that you do not have a response yet but I thinking. I ended up accepting.
I find the decay of human connections an interesting problem to solve. I used to have an app that encouraged meeting in person by utilizing friends inviting other friends[0]. This solved many app-problems like correct matching and safety.
Didn't catch on, though. Setting up events turned out to be too prohibitive. If this interests anyone feel free to contact me at contact [at] eventful [dot] is
I find the community on Clubhouse understand this better than anyone (well, this is true for Reddit and HN too). Clubhouse especially though because people are bat shit crazy on there and somehow conversations happen. It’s a hidden gem that I think the HN community would enjoy.
I haven't heard of Clubhouse being mentioned in a long time. Last time I checked, it didn't gain traction after 2021 and never heard of the app being mentioned since then.
Are there people still using the app? If so how are they making money?
That the copyright notice on their site still says "2025" probably says a lot. I was kinda expecting to find an AI pivot when I opened that landing page.
For what it’s worth, they are living a AI pivot. TOS just changed so they keep transcripts of all voice and actually pop it into an LLM to subjectively determine your karma points. They are absolutely selling audio data for fine tuning purposes imho, and they are absolutely training on all audio. It’s a AI shovel selling company for sure.
And people wonder why others say we are living in a "low trust society". You can only read a story like this so many times before you decide to simply opt out of society.
I speak to everyone when in "work mode". Its part of the job. I smalltalk, im curious, i listen. When off work I dont really want to talk to people at all (outside "my" people, i.e. my family and small group of friends). If someone strikes up a conversation I will of course engage, but I reach a threshold where I run out of gas and have to excuse myself.
I'm the same - work persona is curious, engaged, loves to talk to new people. Off work sometimes this bleeds over, but generally I retreat to my more comfortable introverted self.
It's a valuable skill, so I do sometimes practice trying to adopt the work persona at home, but it really doesn't come naturally.
I agree that expanding communication with strangers is important. But starting with "Do you mind if I sit here? Or did you want to be alone with your thoughts?" and then continuing a conversation for 10+ minutes is a real struggle for me. Sometimes I even wonder—how exactly does this kind of individual conversation actually help me? Maybe this is just me.
Yeah it'll be hard. But with a lot of practice it'll get easier. I think part of the practice is recognizing "they don't want me to continue this conversation" and bailing, vs trying to force every interaction to be a deeper conversation.
I never practiced "idle conversation with a complete stranger" like that because I was lazy. But I did practice making normal, non-sexual, conversation with women on dating sites and dates so that I could go from "isolated in school, then after going online, low response rate and never more than 1 or 2 dates" to someone in a long-term relationship. And recognizing that sort of "ok there's just not any interest here, move along" signal was definitely relevant there too.
Skills take investment.
My parents didn't give me nearly as many opportunities to practice these skills as they had when they grew up, and pop culture actively encouraged me not to talk to strangers as a kid, so I had to work harder at them as an adult. But it was worth it.
That makes me think—why do I enjoy conversations with friends then? What's really the difference between a friend and a stranger? Friends annoy me too, maybe even more often than strangers do.
Your friends are hopefully somewhat invested in you for a non-transactional reason, and have proven to be a non-threat. There's no guarantees with a stranger.
What a bizarre perspective. Have you never gotten any personal value out of a single conversation in your entire life? Have you never made a friend? I don't understand this "all conversations are bad and useless" nonsense. What on earth do you think you're doing on social media?
I was at a conference recently and I went to a meetup session that the organizers put through and I was so anxious that I took a lapel pin and left immediately :( I knew about my social anxiety but never saw it first hand as such. I am so bad in networking with people.
I'm happy to see that in a sea of commenters who'd hate for anyone to strike a conversation with them, there are people who still enjoy connecting with others.
We are in a public forum afterall and we are all strangers here. I'm always happy when random person sends me an email.
Visited Fiji and stayed in the "locals" area rather than in one of the tourist resorts. Everywhere I went, would get stopped by locals and asked how my day was going, where I was going, what I was up to.
Shamefully my tourist-shields were at maximum after experiences in Morocco/Ethiopia and similar, and many people I ignored and kept walking as fast as I could.
Eventually I found myself in a conversation I couldn't easily escape from and I realised... they're just being friendly. They were all just being friendly. I spoke to dozens afterwards and had nice little chats, with no motives, no scams, no sales, no brothers-uncle's shop that I must visit.
(I did get scammed in the taxi though, by someone who didn't make conversation :) )
Glad to see this here. Age-wise I'm in the oldest 10% of users here, maybe 5%. I have noticed over the years the eroding of the ability of young people (20s basically) to interact in what I consider normal social situations.
Talking to your fellow humans in all sorts of situations is how you can form actual knowledge within yourself derived from direct observation. Everything else is a filter and synthesis. How can you know "reality" if you don't interact with it directly?
I'm 39 myself but it's disturbing how you don't even see kids playing out in the street nowadays - a lot of them are indoors on ipads and the like. I knew all the kids on my block and it was regular to ring each other's doorbells so we could go out and play, which is basically early social skills.
Also, one thing not mentioned in the article is that, structurally, some of this is a consequence of a growing sense that we live in a low trust society. I don't necessarily think that is true in the small/local sense for many people, but a lot of the media we consume and talk about highlights that so much of society is untrustworthy and that forces many people to close themselves up as a completely rational way of protecting themselves.
I hope more and more people do not continue to believe that, there is so much good out there in the world and we all have to engage it or we're just letting the low trust side win and life becomes a lot less because of that. Everyone already into chatting for chatting sake now and then, please continue to do so. You're doing a world a huge service. The rest not, come join us, the water feels great!
Low trust is easier to sell for, to try to fill in the hole you might have without enough meaningful social interactions; it's easier to market when you don't have anyone in your close circle to talk you out of spending money unnecessarily. It's easier to manipulate when you don't have enough contacts with others to band together against a common enemy.
The dangers of daily life, while real in some way, have been over-represented in the media, and now we're given the tools to completely avoid them. Whether on purpose or not (bad news sell much better than good news, after all), these are the consequences we're just seeing.
>some of this is a consequence of a growing sense that we live in a low trust society.
Exactly. YMMV but that is 100% true in many urban areas. Too many people leads to less meaningful connections. I imagine much of this community lies in those urban hotspots.
>I hope more and more people do not continue to believe that
it's going to continue. Low trust societies are a structural issue, and I see little initiative to fix it. People constantly need to move around due to rising costs of living, there's no commmunity hubs, third places, frequently meeting clubs, etc. to build such community. Work hours are creeping up while compensation and stability is going down. Where would you find the time to meet up?
It's all an economic issue at the end of the day. There's a part of the equation where we don't "need" to work with as many people anymore to get by. But for he most part, it's very similar to the walk-ability issue in the US. There won't be some mass change all at once, but people take cues and change heir habits around heir environment.
For my environment, I'm a night owl and everything in my town is closed by 8pm or so. I don't like the loud environments of bars. So there's nowhere for me to really go.
I hope you're wrong and I think you're being a little defeatist in the assessment of "Little initiative to fix it". But to each is own. From the communities have stayed in, in different places around the world, I find that is not the case and there is still a high trust society in place locally. It's everywhere else outside that that people tend to view as low trust. I always end up thinking to myself that but there's no true way to actually know that everywhere else is low trust when you're not actually there, they're just fighting shadows.
A very particular case is London, which if you live on the internet you would think is some sort of hellscape where everyone is going to stab you or steal your phone on a bike if you dont run between safe spot to safe spot with eyes on your bike. But I've lived there for many years, still have friends there and visit regularly and that is so far from daily life that it is bizarrely amusing that people think that
I've had three long and very memorable conversations on internaltional plane flights in the past, with three extremely interesting and intelligent people. I don't tend to take those flights anymore, they were for work and the novelty of international travel for work wore off. Now I get out of it whenever I can.
But those three conversations have stayed with me.
I am currently struggling with a deep rumination loop about events from 35 years ago; the trigger three weeks ago was completely accidental, but it was one of the biggest shocks I’ve had in decades. I can't help but think how different life would be if I had the communication skills then that I have now.
Growing up in a conservative, religious household outside the US, there was no support for slow processors, and those who didn't fit the dogma were simply told to 'shut up.' The more you were forced to shut up, the more you closed off. Since this was before the internet, self-help tools were non-existent. I really wish the coaching tools and protocols we have today had been available back then. It wouldn't have changed everything, but it would have given me the tools to manage many situations that I simply couldn't handle at the time.
And yes, I agree with the headline... talk to people, anyone, everyone. Maybe you’ll get help, or maybe you just go for it—because regardless of any embarrassment you face now, you may find yourself proud of that courage decades later.
I usually dislike when people talk to me in public. Some people have nothing to say but they trap you in a conversation anyways. Some people are genuinely interesting and energizing to talk to. Either way, every conversation i've had in public has stuck with me and I can remember these conversations 6+ years later.
I’m wrapping up a 4 month stint at a fancy hotel working as a valet attendant. My job responsibilities as written were parking cars and helping with bags, but the unspoken expectation was that I also greet everyone who passed by my desk. These conversations are all low stakes but make such a difference in my day, and I think the article hits it on the head when they say it doesn’t have to be groundbreaking to be beneficial. The hard part is going to be continuing the habit when I’m not getting paid for it.
I have autism so talking with people can get difficult as we have different communication styles and message decoding systems.
Even when people seem nice I generally keep a distance as I have to analyse them slowly instead of relying on social cues. I do pick up cues but processing them is not subconscious. My subconscious is not as generative and acts more like a buffer for conversation, so all the talking I do subconsciously has to be placed there beforehand instead of generating it with subconscious heuristics.
Interesting. Not the content itself, but the intention behind it: Improvement of social cohesion.
Hmmmm.
People are compartmentalized into groups hating on each other. They're afraid of committing wrong-think and getting labelled, branded, attacked. They prioritize people who aren't there (online people, like you and myself) over those who are.
It's especially interesting from my perspective, because in Vienna we still have some sort of KaffeeHaus-Kultur. CoffeeHouse culture. You can sit there for hours, reading your book, with a coffee and it does not matter, unless the space is really needed.
It's very common to just chat with whoever runs the place at that moment, too. A sense of familiarity is part of the job. For regulars, like myself, the coffee house turns into a second living room:
We people there started talking to each other.
When I was a teenager, many years ago, I had a coffeehouse for table-soccer. It wasn't a club, or association. It was a coffeehouse with table soccer, with gatherings of players.
...
I guess my tangent meant to point at the need for both general, or specialized, "social hubs", where regularly appearing people silently agree to, eventually, getting talked to.
Not like a club. Clubs are too much commitment, causing resistance.
>I guess my tangent meant to point at the need for both general, or specialized, "social hubs", where regularly appearing people silently agree to, eventually, getting talked to.
Those are called "3rd places". Those have sadly been on the decline for the past 30 years.
It's easy to point to phones as the problem, but few can point to proper solutions. Because they don't exist in the same way the previous generations had it.
I feel that there is a down-spiral to this. People who talk to me usually want something from me so I started avoiding people since I have the expectation that they want something form me which means that I also think I look like a weirdo whenever I try to talk to somebody so I stop talking to people.
One of my best stranger conversations talking to a “Big Issue” seller outside a supermarket. As I understand, they’re (close to) homeless usually [1].
When I asked about him, he mentioned he’s Irish but moved on to tell me about his plans. How he was saving to have a farm, planned what to grow, animals - 15m of quite precise description. His story was his future.
This was striking for me - when asked most people tell you about their past, where they’re coming from. It was the first time I realised that where we’re going should be a bigger part of our story and identity.
joke or not (actually not) but read some women spaces and it's obviously a lot of people, especially women, just want to be let alone. Don't start talking with random people unless they start talking to you and it's consensual, simple as that.
I'm very conscious of this, perhaps more so due to being a brown immigrant, which is why I prefer to chat with men or older people. There's much less ambiguity there.
Yeah but if everyone follows that then nobody ever talks to anyone “random” ever. The key is to just not be creepy. Some little low stakes thing that can just end easily if they don’t want to chat. “Such a long wait for this bus. Should have brought a book.” If you get a brief response, fine, end of conversation. Otherwise, then you can chat.
If you’re a man and go into it with the mindset of only talking to women, especially attractive ones, then of course that would get you labeled as a creep because it is creep behaviour. That’s not striking up a conversation with strangers, it’s hitting on women. You have to approach anyone equally. Address the attractive woman the same way you approach the old man on the bus stop.
I find it interesting how this comment says we should be socialising with everyone equally, and another upvoted comment elsewhere here says to modify your appearance to be more approachable.
Bullshit. That's internet incel horseshit. Have an actual conversation. Get to a point where your sole, entire intention isn't just to con a woman into sleeping with you, and where you like, maybe want to get to know her. Lose the weird, internet pick-up artist intensity.
Like, do random men you talk to think you're a creep? If they do, then maybe it's time to get some life coaching. If not, maybe, just maybe, there's some subtle differences in how you approach people you see as sex toys vs. people you see as, you know, people.
>Get to a point where your sole, entire intention isn't just to con a woman into sleeping with you, and where you like, maybe want to get to know her.
But the point of this exercise isn't to make a deep friendship. It's practice. Is this article inherently creepy?
>Like, do random men you talk to think you're a creep? If they do, then maybe it's time to get some life coaching.
If they do, they're a lot better at hiding it. The big difference is in threat level. I don't see men nor women approach me and think "are they trying to hurt me/hit on me" as a default.
> But the point of this exercise isn't to make a deep friendship. It's practice.
Personally, that wasn't my takeaway. I thought it was more that you and the other person would get some joy out of the interaction. As in, conversations with strangers will be fun, even if you don't end up being friends.
If you look at the lyrics it is a bit straightforward for the 21st century, I think the best approach now is to compress it to only 4 words, "Hi, What's Your Name?".
Even that can be a bit much in the wrong situation, so it can be good to seek out the opposite type of situation :)
You might keep that on your mind but from there let things try to imply the rest of the lyrics, especially the part that goes "Can I Be Your Friend?"
I always start a convo with a question, " what is exciting in your life?" - it brings out good things out of people and positivity to the conversation that is following... It brings in perspective. My past leader once said, "understand the people first before you start to work with them"... it is what I believe is missing.. trying to learn about people around us and sometimes taking a chance and strike a conversation with a stranger.. we will learn a great deal even from a small talk..
>I always start a convo with a question, " what is exciting in your life?"
Sadly, nothing. Stuck on 2 part time jobs, I see more layoffs than job posts, I'm about to be soft evicted from my current dwelling, and my country decided to start yet another needless war.
That question works in good times in a high trust society. Now it just reminds you how little there is to look forward to.
I used to talk to strangers a lot when I was younger. But then I started getting older and more scary looking. I developed memories of older men making unwanted advances towards me. I became horribly afraid of making anyone else feel that way, so I stopped.
I know the article's advice is to take a chance, and if I scare someone else so be it. But something about that feels wrong to me.
Reaching middle age, as a guy I thought women were more open to friendliness. I have always assumed it was the shadow of a safe "friendly grandpa" effect. Older men have the opportunity to be seen as less intimidating (assuming you don't emit predator vibes).
Or perhaps alternately I've learnt over the years to be more genuinely friendly.
I've seen men and women attempting to start a friendly conversation and have it backfire - because others can tell if someone is needy. Sometimes people are desperate for a conversation, but they sadly frighten away everyone.
I've also really leant into starting conversations with other guys. The stereotype is a bunch of old men yacking about "boring" stuff, and you can totally just accept that and have fun talking about anything. It's only boring if you lack the wit to discern something interesting within a conversation.
There's also an art to looking approachable, so that others can initiate a conversation with you. I am not skilled at it, but I recognize it. Or alternatively recognizing when someone is open to having a conversation started.
Most important line in this article. People will always find an excuse (and i'm including myself in this at times) but that is all it is, an excuse. Talking to people is what makes us human and its innate. You might not be the best conversationalist or whatever but you can still talk to people, no need to put any pressure on it.
I can't imagine it would, at least not without some (a lot of) social lube. Even bars might prove hard, since a lot of people there will be the regulars and other fixed groups who probably aren't interested in making friends. If you could join the smokers for a fag that might work out, but that doesn't happen any more since you can't smoke outside public establishments (which is fair, but it does remove a potential social arena).
It's reasonably possible at events. Cars and Coffee works great, since everybody wants to talk about their car. I doubt it will work at the dentist, since nobody really wants to be there in the first place. Maybe if they're wearing a shirt or something you can compliment or ask about and then can use that as a springboard?
If you're the dictionary definition of an extrovert you can probably still make it work, but you'll really stand out, and you'll be rejected a lot.
Say what? Technology has been awesome, it pretty much eliminates the risk in social interactions. With Internet, you are not forced to be part of a community you have no interest in and who do not like you anyway because of your interests, but you can choose and pick your own community. And the same goes for dating apps, they help completely derisk the initial approach and as pointed out elsewhere in this thread, risk of being seen as a creep.
If anyone doesn't know where to start - start in places you're stuck next to people. Like in line to check out at the grocery store. I have struck up dozens of conversations looking at the belt and guessing what they're making for dinner. People who like to cook love to talk about cooking.
I've done some Uber driving. Chatting in a car is great because there's no awkwardness of whether to look at one another. I've met some really interesting people, from all backgrounds. I can recommend it if you have time to spare and want to chat with people.
Not everyone wants to talk but you can pick up on that pretty quickly.
I talk to everyone and anyone; it's really great actually. Been doing that all over the world for most of my life (50+). Most people enjoy it; many are lonely and I often end up at parties / dinners etc at complete strangers.
That’s what I loved about NYC, people were generally open-minded and easy to talk to, so I’d chat with tons of people spontaneously. Having moved back to France now, it generally feels harder and weirder, but I got used to it.
I've had some great conversations with random strangers on public transport and in shops etc. Oddly I'm a complete introvert with quite bad social anxiety and avoid social events like work parties etc. But I like talking to strangers I'll never see again. I think it's partly because I'm not trying to make an impression and I'm not there just to socialise. So it's a bit crap for me that people are withdrawing and not engaging in random chit chat as much. It's so easy to be lonely these days.
It is hard as fuck for me. But every time it happened (either me or other person starting) turned out a great memory on itself, or lead to great experiences right after. Still, I do it less often that I would like
I think it's mostly the denormalisation of this. Indeed someone just randomly striking a conversation with a stranger will come across as a psycho or a creep. No one wants to be perceived that way.
I hate these sort of things. Like everyone is just sitting there hoping, hoping for someone to strike up a conversation with them. Oh thank god someone has started a conversation with me! /sarcasm
Respect people's boundaries please. Don't force yourself on people unless they're obviously willing participants.
People put extroversion/introversion as like this binary, permanent thing that cannot be changed. In reality I think it is a spectrum that changes throughout the day and the situation. Someone might be introverted at 8am on their commute, but a wild extrovert at 9pm in the bar. Don't assume, don't try to "help" people you know nothing about.
What's being "forced"? And what boundaries aren't being respected? If someone attempts to strike up a conversation and you're not interested, you can signal that. Or just be direct and say you don't feel like talking. Sure, that can be uncomfortable, but you can't expect humanity as a whole to repress its social nature just to spare you occasional, fleeting moments of mild discomfort. (And despite the wide spectrum of social inclinations -- I'm definitely on the introverted end -- I think it's accurate to say that humans, as a species, crave social interaction.)
In your ideal world, how would someone even signal they are a "willing participant" without talking to someone?
Because it is this "talk to anyone" thing, like if they say no you just need to keep trying because really deep down they just don't know how nice you're being by giving them a chance to talk to you.
It's supreme arrogance. Read the body language and just leave people alone.
If someone is up for talking they'll show the obvious signs - facing you, eye contact, smiling, that sort of waiting-for-something look/expression. I've had e-fucking-nough of people thinking they can "fix" me when I am trying to get some time to myself waiting for a train or whatever after a stressful day at work or being woken up endlessly by kids/neighbours/whatever.
Otherwise it should be "talk to anyone who is obviously open to and willing to have a conversation with you", at which point it's a total tautology anyway and you don't need a guide, it's just natural chat that you don't need to force on someone to make it happen.
> keep trying because really deep down they just don't know how nice you're being by giving them a chance to talk to you.
I don't fathom what kind of trauma would lead you to take this positive, light-hearted advice to connect to fellow human beings, and to spin this into such a vile, evil, anti-social narrative.
Man, talking to strangers in random places just feels socially uncalibrated to me, like I'm being retarded. The first time I across that idea was in the form of "cold approach", the idea of trying to score a date from a woman you see while out and about.
I wonder if anyone who did this had to start from a baseline of feeling this is straight up weird (I'm pretty sure it is weird in my culture).
Cold approaches worked better before social media and smartphones . now your awkward encounters can live forever online and cause humiliation for years to come , or some stranger looking for clout may step in. This is has become so common now , because everyone wants to be a hero.
There's some solid advice in here - especially around performative interactions vs genuine.
I was someone who was raised home schooled and it really altered my ability to communicate with my peers, which was something I had to really work on later in life. It surprises most people who know me when I tell them this, as I'm a pretty outgoing / gregarious person these days. It was a deliberate choice on my part, and I likely overindexed on it, leading to me now being highly social.
For those looking to do the same, I'll offer my own advice: how you engage socially depends on how large the audience is.
Small audiences (1-2 people):
If you don't know them: your goal should be to get them to smile without feeling threatened. A lot of people fail at that last part. Don't give someone a compliment like, "I like your pants" out of the blue - it may threaten them that you have alterior motives ("Are they attracted to me?", "Do they just like how my butt looks in these pants?"). Reframe compliments in a way that isn't threatening - ask them something instead like, "Hey weird question, but can I ask what brand those pants are? I want to get my sibling a birthday present and I think they'd really like those". It shows you see them as positive without it being a threatening interaction.
If you do know them: your goal should be to be interested in what they are saying. Find the topic that will stimulate your mind / get you excited to hear them talk more about it. Don't just gamify it and try to get them to talk more than you talk; that's an easy way to make yourself not look genuine. Dig and find gold - everyone has somethinig cool to say, it's your job to find that.
Medium audiences (3-8 people):
Be the facilitator. Don't butt in to get your own voice heard, butt in to segue to others who haven't had their voice heard. "Omg thats crazy X, hey Y you recently had something similar happen right?". Keep the flow going. Your goal should be to make everyone else feel like they've found gold in the conversation with new and interesting nuggest on a regular basis.
Large audiences (9-30 people):
These are basically meetings, and are the worst possible social interaction. Your goal should be to make these as smooth as possible and end them quickly so you can break to smaller sizes. Present facts clearly without emotion, keep things on topic so you can move past them.
Presentations (30+ people):
With this size you do the reverse of the prior size - the facts don't matter at all. Your goal should be to present emotions, not facts. Don't tell people what the % YoY growth is. Control how they should feel about the % YoY growth. This is the biggest #1 failure I see from inexperienced presenters - they aim to just present the info. People can read the info later - convey to them the emotion they should take away from the data. On every slide you have you should have a goal emotion, and you should reflect that emotion in your presentation. Look at any great presenter and you'll notice the same - they have the audience's emotions in their hands.
I'm at Paris Baguette, a Korean lower-end coffee shop chain common in the Bay Area. The guy next to me has headphones on and his laptop on a stand. Or it's four middle-aged Latino women celebrating a birthday. Or it's a bunch of local high-school kids.
Do I lean over and say, "Hi, how are you guys doing? Really good coffee they have here, huh?"
I'm at the gym. It's a big-box gym. It's full of dudes wearing Airpods Max, a few couples in skintight athletic outfits, a few teens with phones on tripods filming themselves for Tiktok.
Do I come over, gesture for them to take off their headphones, and say, "Hi, how are you guys doing? That's really good form, on that lift, really good form. Keep it up!"
I'm waiting to cross a road. On the other side of the road is a Caltrain crossing. The traffic light cycle takes forever, and then the train comes and preempts it. And then preempts it again when people finish getting on. A crowd of parents with strollers are waiting to cross. People are returning from the farmer's market with bags of vegetables. People on bikes.
Do I lean over and say, "Hey, how are you guys all doing? It sure takes a while to cross. Wow!"
I recommend the book "The Fine Art of Small Talk".
TLDR: Small talk seems to be of trivial importance and to require minimal effort. Neither of this is true. Therefore, there is no shame in cultivating one's smalltalk muscle and being more prepared for it
I read in a couple of comments that you are worried about "bothering people". To be honest, don't worry about it, you can attribute sufficient life skills to others to simply tell you (verbally or non-verbally) in case they feel bothered.
Why does the majority of people just assume people want to communicate... I have not read the article and never am going to. This headline premise alone of doing that will destroy any sanity I have. I do not, ever, want to talk you as a standard and you should never force that to me.
You should really read the article rather than judging it based on the title. The author establishes several reasons you might want to speak to others and highlights cultural phenomena where people seem to be yearning for more connection with strangers.
If after reading it you decide it’s not for you then that’s fine, it is as they say bean soup.
> Why does the majority of people just assume people want to communicate
They don’t. If they did they wouldn’t have an issue striking up a conversation with strangers, but they clearly do.
> I have not read the article and never am going to.
If you don’t know what it says, it might be wise to not be negative about it.
> I do not, ever, want to talk you as a standard and you should never force that to me.
The article isn’t suggesting anyone force anything. Quite the contrary, it advocates for respecting boundaries and even suggests how to communicate your own.
In a world full of shallow people and AI here and there, people cannot hold deep talks anymore.
You can still talk with anyone but going out specifically to talk with anyone???
Yeah, that ain't happening.
It gives me anxiety lmao you will have better time with hobbies.
Here's my life hack:
Caffeine makes my verbal fluency suck so I enter a self-reinforcing cycle of not wanting to talk to people.
Nicotine makes my verbal fluency not suck so I naturally want to talk to people.
Because of this I do nicotine. Is this healthy? Probably not.
I fail at the first hurdle. A small innocuous comment is often met with a "huh?" as if I had said it in Japanese or mentioned how nice the wallpaper tastes. It's like they clock the (relatively mild) autism immediately. Then I just feel super self conscious and lock up
I do that now and it brings me a lot of joy. Recently while leaving a botanical garden I spoke to a man who was excitedly looking for a few specific plants. He is a botanist (amateur? professional? unclear) and I enjoyed sharing in his passion for a moment. Then I saw a maintenance guy moving with great intention who took a moment to ask me and my family if we had a nice time. We did, and I asked him about the papers in his hand. “Gotta get approval for this purchase request asap.” He said. We talked a bit about how nice it is to work at such a beautiful place.
I highly recommend talking to strangers! People are lovely. Go out and try it.
Which country are you in?
I'm from a latin country and the norm is that you end up chatting about life the universe and everything with any random people you share a space with for more than one minute.
But in the USA that doesn't really fly. Talking is transactional, either a business deal is going on or shut up. I've been in the USA for a long time and as an introverted person I'm mostly ok with that, but whenever I'm back home I realize how much I miss talking to random people.
Or other people who are really busy right now, but in general yes, most people enjoy random interactions and talks. And most people do have interesting things to share. You have to have genuine interest, though. Don't force it - but be open for it. Make eye contact first and then you might connect. It is astonishing how many grim looking people suddenly start to smile and act friendly, if you just start a friendly conversation with them. Even if it is just a exchange of a simple comments.
One of their articles though was about “talking to women” but it also emphasized just talking to _anyone_. It had suggestions like “if you’re out at the bar, just ask to sit with a random group, introduce yourself, and have a conversation.”
Many years later in college, I did indeed try this at a bar and was pleasantly surprised. I didn’t make any long term friends, or find a new partner, but I did really start honing the skill of being social with anyone. It’s hard, and especially for me and my social anxiety, it has also really helped me feel more comfortable in places unfamiliar and people unknown.
People need to feel like it's safe to develop relations with you, rather than like you're trying to manipulate them into doing so, which is what happens when you learn only from very hard failures.
The conversation almost always went smoothly and I got the sense my interlocutor was pleasantly surprised to be engaged and had a great time chatting.
But for me it became a chore, rather than a joy. It was “work” like guiding/teaching somebody. The juice was rarely worth the squeeze.
It was a much bigger struggle with conversations where I was putting extra pressure on myself. Being able to have those other conversations was helpful though. Eventually, I found a therapist and am in a better place with this.
One antipattern I've encountered with this approach tho is that sometimes anxious people will exhaust their conversation partners with a battery of questions. Even if thoughtful, this can sometimes have the effect of exhausting your partner, and tends to keep the conversation steered away from actual connection. YMMV, but either way be mindful and make it a point to share yourself
How do you deal with that?
> How do you deal with that?
You teach yourself to say no, to the things you don't want to do.
I considered leaving just that pithy reply, because that's really it. But some of the extra context; It's not a bother to ask someone to hold the door they're already going through because your hands are full. Starting a conversation is about as intrusive as that. The vast majority of people don't mind making some small talk, and ontop of that, the majority can make an excuse if they don't have time. You only assume they can't politely decline, because you can't. Once you learn to say no thanks, politely, but explicitly and directly. You'll actually understand and expect others to return the favor.
That's a much more fair way to interact with people too.
I'd add also that learning to hear someone tell you no and not taking it to heart and getting on with your life. So many people walk through life being afraid of hearing someone reply "no" to them, like its some existential rejection of them and that stops them from doing many things.
I'll make chit chat with anyone, and people who dont want to chat with are generally pretty explicit about saying they dont want to chat or don't have time, or pretty obviously implicit about it by not engaging or looking for ways out.
I live in an apartment (condo). I’ve been practicing making small talk with people in the elevator. The conversations aren’t all winners. Lots of people are closed off or don’t want to chat. But no matter. Elevator conversations are disposable. And most people are genuinely lovely. It’s a fun challenge trying to brighten the days of strangers.
I feel that line of thinking can have some very grave consequences. My mind is swimming with intrusive thoughts half the time.
Look at a flyer on the wall, or your beverage if you’re in a bar, and they’ll follow up if they want to talk and appreciate the reduced pressure either way.
And yeah, never open a conversation with something like “can I ask you a question?” which is usually a trick of a salesperson or beggar to make you acknowledge them and start saying yes.
New Yorkers have a reputation for being stone cold with strangers, but the truth is that anytime somebody approaches you out of the blue, there's an assumption that they're about to ask for money or try to get in your pants. Once you demonstrate you're not looking for either (or, if the second I suppose, that you're at least smooth enough for it not to be immediately evident), people are generally really kind. With some exceptions, I've usually found that the coldest looking person will stop to give a lost tourist directions if it's clear they're in need.
But unfortunately it's in America so I'm not going there until you have some sane leaders again :(
>Just don’t make things a big deal
That sadly doesn't stop the runmors from flowing. That's the real damning thing about such social faux pas. Your reputation can be ruined without having a single person say it to your face. That's both unsettling and morbid for how you look to humanity.
The reality is that most people are too busy thinking about themselves to spend any time thinking about you or a random little interaction that didn’t land
I think the default is sociability too, but for reasons it does seem to be on the retreat.
> Would you be bothered
>basically anywhere there are other people,
Seems like a perfectly legitimate prerogative to me anyway. Actually more "popular" than ever from some of the comments.
>They just can't understand that people wouldn't want to talk to them.
This however does not follow completely logically.
More like "They just can't realize that of all the people who would want to talk to them, you aren't one of them."
No harm done regardless.
Yes. If I am basically anywhere there are other people, I am there for a specific reason, and anyone trying to talk to me for anything else is bothering me. I've found that most people that try to start conversations with strangers are really poor at reading signals that their actions are unwanted and they only stop when you say something so out of their comfort zone they have no idea how to handle it. They just can't understand that people wouldn't want to talk to them.
And after this article and thread, we can add I don't want to be your practice dummy to the reasons you're bothering me.
I’m also never going to be rude about it — unless you are first. Just pick up on the obvious hints that I’m not super into talking.
"I guess the bus is just never on time here, huh"
(Stuck in line at the grocers) "Friday evening rush-hour"
Same kind of thing with whatever you are observing, at the Doctor, in the gym, waiting for the light to turn, etc, etc.
It's all shit jokes if you can even call them that. But the purpose isn't to start a standup routine, it's to share a situation with a stranger and open up the floor to conversation. You are basically just indicating to a stranger: "Hey, I'm open for conversation", they can then choose to respond or just ignore the remark. Then you go from there.
On the contrary, they’re usually very happy to tell you about what they do.
When someone occasionally engages, I extremely quickly dismiss them in the most polite, but firm, way possible. I also intentionally keep a demeanor that generally signals I’m not open to random conversations (I avoid eye contact etc.), but that often doesn’t work. At the gym it is particularly problematic, I’m focusing on gathering strength for my next set and sometimes people bother you even if I am wearing headphones.
I truly do not have a problem with who I am, I’m comfortable in my shoes.
As such, never in a million years I would approach a stranger to strike up a conversation, it would seem an incredibly rude thing to do towards them, on top of clearly not having any desire to engage from my side.
I’ll talk for hours straight to my wife, close family and the very few friends I have though!
And I think that's the answer; people who don't want to talk will simply tell you! And everyone carries on.
It's one thing to not want it and to be comfortable not wanting it, but viewing it as rude goes way beyond that and is not rational.
I am bothered by random people wanting to talk to me -> Randomly talking to other people would bother them -> Bothering people is rude -> Randomly talking to people is rude.
Hence why the platinum rule is better. Once you know that other people (apparently!) aren't bothered by randomly striking up a conversation, you can adjust your actions accordingly.
As he put it, it’s a coin toss. Maybe you’re bothering them or maybe they’re grateful to have someone to distract them. Each is equally true before you start the conversation.
The key is being able to read social cues. If you can, you can stop bothering them.
Obviously this works only if you are an extrovert. Introverts would find this kind of interaction a wasteful use of limited social energy available to them.
I know I can eventually beat it, and I'm so happy for you and everyone who beats social anxiety. You are my idols!
That said, I don't like it when someone says "yeah just do it, it's possible". It's not possible to just do it. Yeah only doing the thing is doing the thing and preparing to do it is not doing the thing, I get it. On the other hand, you can also jump off a cliff without checking your parachute, just saying.
I’ve done what OP describes but I’m heavily introverted and likely HSP too. I’m pretty good at it but it’s incredibly exhausting. My father is exactly the same way.
As I get older, the more I consider self care and prioritising my own needs over others to be happy. To that end, I much prefer to keep to myself and so I do.
However it doesn’t stop me from engaging in impromptu conversations. I just don’t go out of my way to talk to literally everyone.
Categorizing yourself in a way that may purposefully stunt your growth and reduce opportunity for growth is a wasteful use of life.
Strong words. I'd like to understand your choice of words here.
> Categorizing yourself
Also known as knowing yourself, your strengths, and your weaknesses.
> purposefully stunt your growth
A wild assumption that talking to everyone will magically let you grow. Some people just prefer to focus on people that matter to them.
> ... reduce opportunity for growth
By choosing to compete in an area that is your weakness, you already limited your growth potential.
> ... wasteful use of life
So refusing to talk to everyone is a wasteful use of life. Again, I find it more wasteful to talk to anyone instead of people who matter to me. Unless it's fun, of course.
My spouse had a hard time acclimating to rural Midwest life after living in a mega city on the East Coast. She complained that everything takes an extra half hour for time spent standing around talking about nothing.
It never dawned on me that if you're from a place, like a large city, where interacting with strangers or very distant acquaintances isn't encouraged, that this would not be a natural part of life.
I find this interesting but don't know what to do with that.
This is in big part due to being born and raised in a large European capital. There’s unwritten barriers you respect as a social rule, and if someone breaks the rule you assume they’re trying to sell something or scam you. To me talking to a stranger unprompted feels as out of place as pulling my pants down in public.
It’s natural for these barriers to exist to make dense spaces liveable, but they do constrain you.
And also, I really hated the religious mindset with all the little rules they have, the hatred for lgbt people, single parents, foreigners etc. There were good people too but you always had to watch who was around to have a chat. I'm very progressive and atheist. And very alternative.
My ex who was from this community even got in trouble with some parents because she told the kids she was minding that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Apparently it's normal to deny all the progress we have made as a society.
I just couldn't deal with it, it just made me so depressed. And this wasn't even in the US but just in Europe.
In the city it's much easier to find open-minded people. And the ones who aren't don't control public life. I don't ever want to live in a rural area again after that (though in fairness I do have some ptsd from it).
Sorry but I couldn't help imagining you as the fake health inspector from Fawlty Towers while reading your comment.
I do agree with you though, talking is great, we are social animals even though modern life allows us to forget this, to our own detriment.
Agreeable comments will draw comparatively fewer replies, while disagreeable ones achieve the opposite.
But this then results in a "false experience" for the individual, where unlike in real life, the bad exchanges do not end up outweighed by the good ones, as you simply don't go on to have those. You just upvote and move on (often to avoid redundancy).
Maybe if the two were tied together (voting either up / down & sending a reply), communities would work healthier? I don't know. Not like it's easy to have this tried out.
I could definitely see challenges to this though, the aforementioned redundancy being one. I have some countermeasure ideas, but then I wonder if that would make the UX complicated enough to drive people away instead, which is a lose-lose.
I would assume that before that happens your natural death would come first.
My brain on a Monday in a crap mood driving on the highway: that jerk that just cut me off has ruined my entire day.
My brain on Friday after good sleep and a relaxing morning: heh look at the guy, he's definitely in a hurry. Hope he gets where he's going, back to my jams!
I try to train myself to remember to be Friday brain, but sometimes Monday brain comes out and I'm in a funk that makes me forget I actually have a choice about NOT reacting a specific way. I like to think I'm getting better at consistently not sweating the small stuff and just letting those instances go without giving them an appreciable amount of mental space better suited to relaxing and listening to good music.
I did this a few times and it surprisingly worked. I was able to make small talk about an article I was reading. Did it matter that I didn't come off with the confidence of Tony Robbins? No.
I ask him what he thought of the population crisis Japan is facing. He said said that was bullshit and that 8 billion people in the world are way too many.
And that was when I stopped talking to him.
This could have been an opportunity for both of you to understand each other's perspective. That's why you asked their thoughts on the matter right? It's a shame you let that pass you by.
And if you think they'y aren't ending, you need to go look at the numbers and then look at the double speak on solutions. There are no known solutions. Every solution requires a miracle that has never happened.
I share the same sentiments as you, it'd be a tragic loss. But saying they'd "end" is well, unlikely. The countries will shrink. Japan population could reach 60M by 2100 if nothing is done. That's still a lot of people and by then other factors will dominate and fertility may rise again.
Humans are adaptive and a lot can change in half a century, so I would not overly index on what projections say. Everything would need to stay static for the projections to matter, which given the rate of technological changes and geopolitical tension, sounds likely.
That's a pretty extreme change!
I've had to spend week and a half battling Gmail daily email account limits sending batches of 500 emails just to notify people in her address book, receiving hundreds of responses. Her memorial was attended by hundreds of people.
It served her very well in her chosen career of real estate sales, although I think she'd might have done really well in community organizing or even politics where those skills are also very useful.
On the flip side, it was sometimes difficult to be there as family wanting some attention, since her bright light was always shining in many directions.
I've inherited just some of that talent, and I think it is a talent, but trainable.
I miss her already.
I love this story, because I had the same experience. When my dad passed, I had the same 500 email limitation, and had to send out multiple waves of emails through Gmail. He was loved by so many people!
A few shopkeepers waved through their windows as I went past, the greengrocer came out of his shop to have a quick chat, the dry cleaner asked after my dog, and the guy from the household shop told me they have more of the cleaning paste I use. We bumped into a couple of folk I see every couple of weeks, then got a coffee and I paid the “special” rate rather than the rate on the sign that they charge people they don’t know.
My colleague said - half jokingly - “I didn’t realise you were mayor”, and tried to convince me that I should go into local politics. She couldn’t understand when I said that would take all the pleasure out of it, because talking to people would become transactional rather than joyous.
I can’t imagine not talking to people. A while back I changed the route I take when I walk my dogs each day, and the guy who runs the local fish stall started asking people if I had left the area or died. I don’t buy fish from him each week- but every time I see him stop and we have a chat.
I feel incredibly lucky to be missed by my fishmonger just because I started walking my dogs a different route.
I grew up in a tiny village in the country. The building I live in has hundreds of people living in it, compared to the few dozen houses where I grew up. I think talking to people makes a huge city feel smaller.
How do you know what to say? How do you make the conversation flow and not end awkwardly?
Only if you let it! I am guessing you would do well, because people can absolutely tell when you are being a smarmy politician and when you're actually a legitimately friendly, decent person.
Having the kind of network and connections you do connects you with the actual needs of your community
At which point, it's not necessarily Transactional, but fostering connection and collaboration in order to create win-win situations for everyone in your community.
That's what politicking Should be.
It doesn't have to and I suspect that's why your colleague suggested it. Politicians act that way because that's what people want except they don't want someone who is acting.
You have what politicians pretend to have because it makes people like them.
You might be a terrible politician for other reasons but I don't think what you've said is true.
It doesn't take the pleasure out of it, it doesn't make it transactional. It just gives them incredible job fulfillment, at least in that part of it.
Bill Clinton was famous for this. It was incredibly frustrating to his staff because he was constantly late for his next event, because he always wanted to keep talking to the people he'd just met. They'd have to build in buffer time to plan around it, because otherwise it wound up disrupting his schedule and logistics too much.
> …you’re arguing against someone who believes they are.
when actually it says
> …you’re arguing against who someone believes they are.
(meaning “you're arguing with someone against who they believe themselves to be” or something like that.)
Honestly, in the least combative & confrontational possible, your thoughts there are just an excuse to not reach out and engage with the rest of your world. It's a little sad (not you, the situation itself) because if more people had that same thought, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with no one talking to each other and those people you allude to being an afraid to talk too for whatever reason become the only people out there talking. We're certainly not there yet and I hope we never get there
In my typical day at work (teacher), I spend hours talking with dozens of people. A large part of why I chose this work was to escape the isolation that I felt previously when I was doing remote software work. I attend weekly religious services and make an effort to stay for the social hour afterwards. When I go to parties, I don't feel like I have an unusually hard time talking with people. I'm not always as engaged with the world as I'd like, but I don't feel that I'm avoiding it either.
But this article isn't broadly about having conversations with new people: it's about approaching strangers in public settings one-on-one (the article mentions a bus stop, the street, and a mostly empty train carriage), where there's no expectation of social interaction. This is a different situation with its own set of pitfalls. Nobody is going to assume that I'm trying to rob them when I introduce myself at Quaker meeting. No one is going to think I'm a creep for asking a student about their hobbies while I'm at school. We don't see articles about people getting shot for starting up a conversation at a party.
But all of that goes out the window in the settings that the author describes. It's funny, the author mentions feeling like it was "rude and unsafe" to start a chat during the pandemic. I felt like talking to strangers in public got much easier during the pandemic, when people were desperate for any sort of in-person conversation. It's the normal times when this sort of interaction feels rude and unsafe.
Maybe I'm too pessimistic, maybe it would be fine for me to let my guard down a little. I think that loneliness is a huge issue these days and I'm grateful for the efforts people are making (including the author of the article) to address it. But approaching strangers in public in the way the author describes is a special case that is *much* more fraught than other types of social interaction, and is a lot harder for certain people to do successfully. I wish it weren't that way, and maybe it's worth pushing back against, but that doesn't change the current reality. Some people might not feel this way, but they're probably the people for whom it's not true.
One thing though is why you see new people as any different than strangers? I'm not a Quaker or ever attended a quaker meeting (but have always liked the ethos of the vibe) so don't know how that goes. But i've spent time in christian churches in my younger days and even though we were all there for the same reason, those people were still also strangers. Some already had their cliques they'd speak to and catch up with and I'm sure if someone outside that spoke to them the same double take that initially occurs talking to any new person or stranger would still occur there. Some people would want to continue chatting, some people would rather just talk to whoever they were talking to before. But its still fundamentally the same thing as talking to (or attempting to talk to and being shutdown by) someone doing the same thing you are currently doing, whether that's being on a train or sitting at a cafe etc.
My thoughts are formed from personal experience. You get a few experiences and you get the hint.
When I dye my hair all kinds of colors, random people talk to me (and the specific colors even dictate who talks). When I dress up in a suit, people treat me more seriously. When I dress like a contractor and drive my truck, regular dudes talk to me at gas stations. And when I dress queer, women (and some dudes) smile at me.
I'm not even outgoing personality-wise, which would help more. Personality's the mental equivalent of physical appearance. Think of it like acting: actors pretend to be a certain way, and if it feels genuine, it makes us love or hate them, intrigued or bored. It's a lot more work than changing clothes, but it works no matter what you wear.
It makes sense: people love dogs. It gives us something in common and is a starting point for conversation. And people with cute dogs seem much less threatening.
But I also kind of resent it. I wish people would want to talk to me when I'm just me.
I see what you're getting at, but also this take kinda annoys me because it falls into the bucket of implying a personal fault. If people don't socialise with you then it must be because you do or don't do X, Y, Z. "Just do X" and you'll become a social butterfly.
Based on my personal experience, I don't know if I buy it. I guess I'm a regular enough guy, but seriously almost never, across my whole life, does someone invoke random socialisation with me. Yet I know people who can't even take the bus without strangers striking up conversations and hassling them, while they are actively trying to be antisocial. What magic trick are these people performing? Can I learn the same trick? What if I don't want to perform it? I think the reality is that for some (many?) people, it just doesn't work out and it's not necessarily due to any particular flaw.
That's why I gotta pick my venues. But those venues are shrinking and growing farther apart.
Thing is, if normal people don't talk to strangers anymore, then only the weirdos are left, reinforcing the idea that only weirdos talk to strangers...
Nobody wants randos coming up to them and asking for something.
Most people would be less lonely if everyone had more practice at making non-transactional conversation.
Actively avoiding conversation still qualifies as "weirdo" behavior to most people.
Are you willfully ignoring people at bars, night clubs, supermarkets, etc?
It's obvious 99% of the time whether or not the conversation is in the wrong place and wrong time.
Supermarkets are a toss up. Most people are there to get their food and get out.
Scamming crools frequently do have good social skills, but of course there is that risk of being scammed if you talk to them.
I still can’t understand the point of this. Do you get a charge telling social anxious people they’ll be weird if they do their homework? That’s precisely what you did. Why?
If someone on the street tries to talk to me, I try to avoid even looking at them or acknowledging them. They'll use that as an opening. Just keep walking.
I won't say I have conversations with strangers like that all the time, but it is 100% possible, and a lot of people really do appreciate it if you bother to talk to them. People often like being asked about themselves (I used to do cultural anthropology research so I have had quite a bit of practice too...).
There are of course reasons why it doesn't always work or becomes awkward. For example, gender is a factor - a significant part of the population is much more comfortable having same-sex conversations with strangers - not to mention other sociological factors around race, class, nationality, all the obvious things.
The main ingredient, at least for me, was being determined enough to push through the discomfort. A lot of the early interactions were awkward, sometimes overtly uncomfortable, but that's an unavoidable part of the learning process (and I took a key lesson from it - it's okay to look like a dork, usually it's only our inner critic that turns it into an immortal sin).
Nowadays I feel a pang of sympathy when I see someone feeling shy or speaking in self-deprecating terms. I remember how that felt, and I remember how easy it would have been to have stayed inside that box for the rest of my life.
Glad I didn't.
How do you know what to say?, usually I can start the conversation but I don’t know where to take it after. How are you able to shift to the next stage when you have both agreed that the weather today is nice.
How do you get over the feeling that you are wasting their time?
Finally, how do you end the conversation where you might still be going the same way or waiting at the same place?
Learn a few words in a variety of languages. They are great conversation starters / expanders – I made a lot of actual friendships by talking to people (after taking their orders), asking them where they’re from, and then knowing a few words in their language. Nothing makes people happier than hearing someone speak their native language, no matter how poorly.
This was in a university town, so knowing a couple words in Chinese, Arabic, Hindi, etc. was useful.
I just love it, it’s easy and I get a lot in return - from perks to incredible encounters. At work it’s been very helpful.
I developed that skill while traveling alone for a year , and it boils down to practicing and reading whether the person you’re talking to is ok with your talking or not.
In any case, it makes me immensely happy.
And now because I know them I go there because I can buy my stuff but also spend five minutes chatting and that makes going grocery shopping a real joy. And because I go there and chat they do nice things like give me a couple of tomatoes or “you’ve got to try this cake” or the wine shop where I automatically get a 15% discount, or the butcher where they let me in when are already closed but they know I’ve come over specially.
And some of those people have become real friends, like go and have dinner together friends. We have very different lives but we get on because we get on. I think everyone benefits from reaching out of their bubble a bit.
If I’m feeling a bit glum I’ll go out to buy bread or something because I know just seeing the people I see regularly will lift me up.
But I feel I'm better off now for doing what the article suggested, over the last 5-6 years. Doing so improved my knowledge, my empathy, grew my revenue, built larger professional networks, introduced me to hobby networks, and helped with better financial planning.
I even changed to the extent of actually looking forward to outreach activities that involve a lot of conversations. I find them very satisfying because they help me understand social realities and people better than social media and books and help me develop empathy.
I wouldn't say I'm now an extrovert. My personality still prefers a lot of alone time. There are times when I still don't feel like talking to anyone. But they're now for positive reasons like books to finish rather than negative reasons like social anxiety.
I now tend to see things like introversion and social anxiety as obstacles. One can rationalize them in many ways but they'll remain objective obstacles IMO.
We've completely normalized being a shut-in to the point where your take, that it's authoritarian to push people out into the world and engage others, is quite common. What now passes for 'extroverted' used to be known as the human condition. Even extroverts today probably have fewer friends, smaller families and spend more time isolated and on screens than 99% of humanity.
There's only so mach a person can take being on the other side of someone like that. We drifted apart...
I want to change that too, but that involves time for hobbies instead of job searching and worrying about debt.
my story is me and my wife moved to another country a few years ago for my study. after 4 months moving there, she already know and conversed with the people working the apartment and some neighbors. while i mostly just exchanged cursories and nods and glances. then one day we just walked out together and the same people i passed earlier just says hello and converse and stuff with my wife and me. yes she's very much an extrovert but i can see people are way 'more open' and my wife has that too. me on the other hand do have 'i don't want to bother you so please don't bother me' vibe.
People, in most part, are good. Some are really quite lovely such that it reminds me of Bilbo's birthday speech:
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve"
When I asked about him, he mentioned he’s Irish but moved on to tell me about his plans. How he was saving to have a farm, planned what to grow, animals - 15m of quite precise description. His story was his future.
This was striking for me - when asked most people tell you about their past, where they’re coming from. It was the first time I realised that where we’re going should be a bigger part of our story and identity.
I try to keep that conversation in mind as a lesson, and as a reminder to talk to people around.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Issue
It's all nice to imagine everyone talking to each other, but the reality is that in (western?) society, we have kinda collectively decided that socialisation is to be avoided. Either it's too weird, too boring, or too unsafe. I mean have you tried randomly talking to people? Most don't seem very open to it.
Also it doesn't help that the little "pretext" scenarios that can lead to socialising are being systematically eliminated from our lives.
And finally, if you're neurodivergent or otherwise aren't perfectly typical, enjoy people thinking you're weird anyway.
I agree re the pretext scenarios disappearing and re neurodivergence adding extra challenges.
RE the former: there are lots more of these pretext scenarios than you might realize
RE the latter, I realize it's not your point but for what it's worth, you won't really be able to tell in most cases that someone on the street or wherever is or isn't nd. Meaning: there's a good chance that the person you are talking to is nd themselves. Lots of us are pros at masking
In general though i would say to be careful when generalizing about human behavior in a way that causes you to implement and enforce rules / limitations on your own behavior in response. This is unavoidable, right? And yes, there's often an nd component to this. But especially as you get older, these can start to calcify and limit you in increasingly destructive ways
Didn't catch on, though. Setting up events turned out to be too prohibitive. If this interests anyone feel free to contact me at contact [at] eventful [dot] is
[0] https://blog.eventful.is/p/the-perfect-dating-app
Are there people still using the app? If so how are they making money?
It’s a good app, I’m not saying the people that run it are good lol.
It's a valuable skill, so I do sometimes practice trying to adopt the work persona at home, but it really doesn't come naturally.
I never practiced "idle conversation with a complete stranger" like that because I was lazy. But I did practice making normal, non-sexual, conversation with women on dating sites and dates so that I could go from "isolated in school, then after going online, low response rate and never more than 1 or 2 dates" to someone in a long-term relationship. And recognizing that sort of "ok there's just not any interest here, move along" signal was definitely relevant there too.
Skills take investment.
My parents didn't give me nearly as many opportunities to practice these skills as they had when they grew up, and pop culture actively encouraged me not to talk to strangers as a kid, so I had to work harder at them as an adult. But it was worth it.
It doesn't. It just helps the speaker.
We are in a public forum afterall and we are all strangers here. I'm always happy when random person sends me an email.
Shamefully my tourist-shields were at maximum after experiences in Morocco/Ethiopia and similar, and many people I ignored and kept walking as fast as I could.
Eventually I found myself in a conversation I couldn't easily escape from and I realised... they're just being friendly. They were all just being friendly. I spoke to dozens afterwards and had nice little chats, with no motives, no scams, no sales, no brothers-uncle's shop that I must visit.
(I did get scammed in the taxi though, by someone who didn't make conversation :) )
Talking to your fellow humans in all sorts of situations is how you can form actual knowledge within yourself derived from direct observation. Everything else is a filter and synthesis. How can you know "reality" if you don't interact with it directly?
Later I realized this is wrong on my part, talking is all about talking, let the vibe continue and don't let it die.
I hope more and more people do not continue to believe that, there is so much good out there in the world and we all have to engage it or we're just letting the low trust side win and life becomes a lot less because of that. Everyone already into chatting for chatting sake now and then, please continue to do so. You're doing a world a huge service. The rest not, come join us, the water feels great!
The dangers of daily life, while real in some way, have been over-represented in the media, and now we're given the tools to completely avoid them. Whether on purpose or not (bad news sell much better than good news, after all), these are the consequences we're just seeing.
Exactly. YMMV but that is 100% true in many urban areas. Too many people leads to less meaningful connections. I imagine much of this community lies in those urban hotspots.
>I hope more and more people do not continue to believe that
it's going to continue. Low trust societies are a structural issue, and I see little initiative to fix it. People constantly need to move around due to rising costs of living, there's no commmunity hubs, third places, frequently meeting clubs, etc. to build such community. Work hours are creeping up while compensation and stability is going down. Where would you find the time to meet up?
It's all an economic issue at the end of the day. There's a part of the equation where we don't "need" to work with as many people anymore to get by. But for he most part, it's very similar to the walk-ability issue in the US. There won't be some mass change all at once, but people take cues and change heir habits around heir environment.
For my environment, I'm a night owl and everything in my town is closed by 8pm or so. I don't like the loud environments of bars. So there's nowhere for me to really go.
A very particular case is London, which if you live on the internet you would think is some sort of hellscape where everyone is going to stab you or steal your phone on a bike if you dont run between safe spot to safe spot with eyes on your bike. But I've lived there for many years, still have friends there and visit regularly and that is so far from daily life that it is bizarrely amusing that people think that
I've had three long and very memorable conversations on internaltional plane flights in the past, with three extremely interesting and intelligent people. I don't tend to take those flights anymore, they were for work and the novelty of international travel for work wore off. Now I get out of it whenever I can.
But those three conversations have stayed with me.
Growing up in a conservative, religious household outside the US, there was no support for slow processors, and those who didn't fit the dogma were simply told to 'shut up.' The more you were forced to shut up, the more you closed off. Since this was before the internet, self-help tools were non-existent. I really wish the coaching tools and protocols we have today had been available back then. It wouldn't have changed everything, but it would have given me the tools to manage many situations that I simply couldn't handle at the time.
And yes, I agree with the headline... talk to people, anyone, everyone. Maybe you’ll get help, or maybe you just go for it—because regardless of any embarrassment you face now, you may find yourself proud of that courage decades later.
PS: Improved with AI
Even when people seem nice I generally keep a distance as I have to analyse them slowly instead of relying on social cues. I do pick up cues but processing them is not subconscious. My subconscious is not as generative and acts more like a buffer for conversation, so all the talking I do subconsciously has to be placed there beforehand instead of generating it with subconscious heuristics.
Hmmmm.
People are compartmentalized into groups hating on each other. They're afraid of committing wrong-think and getting labelled, branded, attacked. They prioritize people who aren't there (online people, like you and myself) over those who are.
It's especially interesting from my perspective, because in Vienna we still have some sort of KaffeeHaus-Kultur. CoffeeHouse culture. You can sit there for hours, reading your book, with a coffee and it does not matter, unless the space is really needed.
It's very common to just chat with whoever runs the place at that moment, too. A sense of familiarity is part of the job. For regulars, like myself, the coffee house turns into a second living room:
We people there started talking to each other.
When I was a teenager, many years ago, I had a coffeehouse for table-soccer. It wasn't a club, or association. It was a coffeehouse with table soccer, with gatherings of players.
...
I guess my tangent meant to point at the need for both general, or specialized, "social hubs", where regularly appearing people silently agree to, eventually, getting talked to.
Not like a club. Clubs are too much commitment, causing resistance.
Those are called "3rd places". Those have sadly been on the decline for the past 30 years.
It's easy to point to phones as the problem, but few can point to proper solutions. Because they don't exist in the same way the previous generations had it.
The topical issues of today causing strife are not reconcilable when the division is "these are the people we're going to hate".
When I asked about him, he mentioned he’s Irish but moved on to tell me about his plans. How he was saving to have a farm, planned what to grow, animals - 15m of quite precise description. His story was his future.
This was striking for me - when asked most people tell you about their past, where they’re coming from. It was the first time I realised that where we’re going should be a bigger part of our story and identity.
I try to keep that conversation in mind.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Issue
joke or not (actually not) but read some women spaces and it's obviously a lot of people, especially women, just want to be let alone. Don't start talking with random people unless they start talking to you and it's consensual, simple as that.
well, yes. mission accomplished.
> The key is to just not be creepy.
Sadly, the ones who are creepy never realize they are creepy.
If you’re a man and go into it with the mindset of only talking to women, especially attractive ones, then of course that would get you labeled as a creep because it is creep behaviour. That’s not striking up a conversation with strangers, it’s hitting on women. You have to approach anyone equally. Address the attractive woman the same way you approach the old man on the bus stop.
So which is it?
And noone knows if you are talking to people "equally" they only know the conversation they are currently in.
I guess you could just hit on everyone. Old, ugly, whatever! Then you won't be a creep.
But in all seriousness, the difference between courting someone and creeping someone out is how attractive you are to them, not the other way around.
Like, do random men you talk to think you're a creep? If they do, then maybe it's time to get some life coaching. If not, maybe, just maybe, there's some subtle differences in how you approach people you see as sex toys vs. people you see as, you know, people.
But the point of this exercise isn't to make a deep friendship. It's practice. Is this article inherently creepy?
>Like, do random men you talk to think you're a creep? If they do, then maybe it's time to get some life coaching.
If they do, they're a lot better at hiding it. The big difference is in threat level. I don't see men nor women approach me and think "are they trying to hurt me/hit on me" as a default.
Personally, that wasn't my takeaway. I thought it was more that you and the other person would get some joy out of the interaction. As in, conversations with strangers will be fun, even if you don't end up being friends.
You can hit on someone and connect with them.
Be nice, connect, open up, share, listen, love. All that shit.
Then you'll get a wife, like myself. Good luck.
Or just make friends, or enemies, whatever floats your boat.
Nobody would talk with anybody if both sides thought like that
As everybody knows that's still often not enough, but why shoot yourself in the foot when you're trying to put your best foot forward?
I'll never forget the day some sophisticated gentlemen came to my school and introduced one of their big hit songs that night.
How there's 5 little words so many single women love to hear, "Hey Girl, What's Your Name?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09w6_q0Chxk
If you look at the lyrics it is a bit straightforward for the 21st century, I think the best approach now is to compress it to only 4 words, "Hi, What's Your Name?".
Even that can be a bit much in the wrong situation, so it can be good to seek out the opposite type of situation :)
You might keep that on your mind but from there let things try to imply the rest of the lyrics, especially the part that goes "Can I Be Your Friend?"
Because the best food forward of a creep is still a creep.
Yeah, some people are only up to no good :\
If you can't differentiate yourself from that, it would be something to work on well before you try and be as socially acceptable as the average joe.
For everyone else who's not a creep, maybe you just have to "accept" that everyone in the world just doesn't want to be socially acceptable anyway.
Most people are in headphones and give weird looks if you try doing small talks. I find it's easier to talk with older people.
Sadly, nothing. Stuck on 2 part time jobs, I see more layoffs than job posts, I'm about to be soft evicted from my current dwelling, and my country decided to start yet another needless war.
That question works in good times in a high trust society. Now it just reminds you how little there is to look forward to.
I know the article's advice is to take a chance, and if I scare someone else so be it. But something about that feels wrong to me.
Or perhaps alternately I've learnt over the years to be more genuinely friendly.
I've seen men and women attempting to start a friendly conversation and have it backfire - because others can tell if someone is needy. Sometimes people are desperate for a conversation, but they sadly frighten away everyone.
I've also really leant into starting conversations with other guys. The stereotype is a bunch of old men yacking about "boring" stuff, and you can totally just accept that and have fun talking about anything. It's only boring if you lack the wit to discern something interesting within a conversation.
There's also an art to looking approachable, so that others can initiate a conversation with you. I am not skilled at it, but I recognize it. Or alternatively recognizing when someone is open to having a conversation started.
Most important line in this article. People will always find an excuse (and i'm including myself in this at times) but that is all it is, an excuse. Talking to people is what makes us human and its innate. You might not be the best conversationalist or whatever but you can still talk to people, no need to put any pressure on it.
It's reasonably possible at events. Cars and Coffee works great, since everybody wants to talk about their car. I doubt it will work at the dentist, since nobody really wants to be there in the first place. Maybe if they're wearing a shirt or something you can compliment or ask about and then can use that as a springboard?
If you're the dictionary definition of an extrovert you can probably still make it work, but you'll really stand out, and you'll be rejected a lot.
Not everyone wants to talk but you can pick up on that pretty quickly.
I'm glad for people who don't struggle with this, I just wish they would be more empathetic.
Respect people's boundaries please. Don't force yourself on people unless they're obviously willing participants.
People put extroversion/introversion as like this binary, permanent thing that cannot be changed. In reality I think it is a spectrum that changes throughout the day and the situation. Someone might be introverted at 8am on their commute, but a wild extrovert at 9pm in the bar. Don't assume, don't try to "help" people you know nothing about.
In your ideal world, how would someone even signal they are a "willing participant" without talking to someone?
It's supreme arrogance. Read the body language and just leave people alone.
If someone is up for talking they'll show the obvious signs - facing you, eye contact, smiling, that sort of waiting-for-something look/expression. I've had e-fucking-nough of people thinking they can "fix" me when I am trying to get some time to myself waiting for a train or whatever after a stressful day at work or being woken up endlessly by kids/neighbours/whatever.
Otherwise it should be "talk to anyone who is obviously open to and willing to have a conversation with you", at which point it's a total tautology anyway and you don't need a guide, it's just natural chat that you don't need to force on someone to make it happen.
I don't fathom what kind of trauma would lead you to take this positive, light-hearted advice to connect to fellow human beings, and to spin this into such a vile, evil, anti-social narrative.
How does that help?
Don't assume people want to talk. Respect boundaries, leave people alone.
I wonder if anyone who did this had to start from a baseline of feeling this is straight up weird (I'm pretty sure it is weird in my culture).
Most random encounters have a pretext, from smoking a cigarette to talking to the shopkeeper, or being in a queue for a long time.
Talking to a woman ( esp given that many of them are harassed from what I understand from my female friends ) without any reason to is much harder
I was someone who was raised home schooled and it really altered my ability to communicate with my peers, which was something I had to really work on later in life. It surprises most people who know me when I tell them this, as I'm a pretty outgoing / gregarious person these days. It was a deliberate choice on my part, and I likely overindexed on it, leading to me now being highly social.
For those looking to do the same, I'll offer my own advice: how you engage socially depends on how large the audience is.
Small audiences (1-2 people):
If you don't know them: your goal should be to get them to smile without feeling threatened. A lot of people fail at that last part. Don't give someone a compliment like, "I like your pants" out of the blue - it may threaten them that you have alterior motives ("Are they attracted to me?", "Do they just like how my butt looks in these pants?"). Reframe compliments in a way that isn't threatening - ask them something instead like, "Hey weird question, but can I ask what brand those pants are? I want to get my sibling a birthday present and I think they'd really like those". It shows you see them as positive without it being a threatening interaction.
If you do know them: your goal should be to be interested in what they are saying. Find the topic that will stimulate your mind / get you excited to hear them talk more about it. Don't just gamify it and try to get them to talk more than you talk; that's an easy way to make yourself not look genuine. Dig and find gold - everyone has somethinig cool to say, it's your job to find that.
Medium audiences (3-8 people):
Be the facilitator. Don't butt in to get your own voice heard, butt in to segue to others who haven't had their voice heard. "Omg thats crazy X, hey Y you recently had something similar happen right?". Keep the flow going. Your goal should be to make everyone else feel like they've found gold in the conversation with new and interesting nuggest on a regular basis.
Large audiences (9-30 people):
These are basically meetings, and are the worst possible social interaction. Your goal should be to make these as smooth as possible and end them quickly so you can break to smaller sizes. Present facts clearly without emotion, keep things on topic so you can move past them.
Presentations (30+ people):
With this size you do the reverse of the prior size - the facts don't matter at all. Your goal should be to present emotions, not facts. Don't tell people what the % YoY growth is. Control how they should feel about the % YoY growth. This is the biggest #1 failure I see from inexperienced presenters - they aim to just present the info. People can read the info later - convey to them the emotion they should take away from the data. On every slide you have you should have a goal emotion, and you should reflect that emotion in your presentation. Look at any great presenter and you'll notice the same - they have the audience's emotions in their hands.
Do I lean over and say, "Hi, how are you guys doing? Really good coffee they have here, huh?"
I'm at the gym. It's a big-box gym. It's full of dudes wearing Airpods Max, a few couples in skintight athletic outfits, a few teens with phones on tripods filming themselves for Tiktok.
Do I come over, gesture for them to take off their headphones, and say, "Hi, how are you guys doing? That's really good form, on that lift, really good form. Keep it up!"
I'm waiting to cross a road. On the other side of the road is a Caltrain crossing. The traffic light cycle takes forever, and then the train comes and preempts it. And then preempts it again when people finish getting on. A crowd of parents with strollers are waiting to cross. People are returning from the farmer's market with bags of vegetables. People on bikes.
Do I lean over and say, "Hey, how are you guys all doing? It sure takes a while to cross. Wow!"
TLDR: Small talk seems to be of trivial importance and to require minimal effort. Neither of this is true. Therefore, there is no shame in cultivating one's smalltalk muscle and being more prepared for it
The non-verbal cues are wher things get difficult.
If after reading it you decide it’s not for you then that’s fine, it is as they say bean soup.
They don’t. If they did they wouldn’t have an issue striking up a conversation with strangers, but they clearly do.
> I have not read the article and never am going to.
If you don’t know what it says, it might be wise to not be negative about it.
> I do not, ever, want to talk you as a standard and you should never force that to me.
The article isn’t suggesting anyone force anything. Quite the contrary, it advocates for respecting boundaries and even suggests how to communicate your own.
It gives me anxiety lmao you will have better time with hobbies.
Because of this I do nicotine. Is this healthy? Probably not.