An interactive map of FLock Cams

(deflock.org)

222 points | by anjel 1 hour ago

17 comments

  • snailmailman 59 minutes ago
    This is a quite scary map. They are all over my local area. It may technically be possible to route a drive around them, but if you take the most convenient path between any two points at least one camera will spot you. I'd have to leave my neighborhood through back roads and enter local shopping areas through sidestreets.

    This data shouldn't even be collected in the first place, let alone consolidated into a national network that any police officer can decide to spy on me through.

    • burningChrome 12 minutes ago
      >> This is a quite scary map.

      It can be. FLOCK data was used to put Bryan Kohberger at the scene along with other people's security camera's. Cops regularly use FLOCK camera's to get hits for criminals that have warrants for violent crime.

      I can see why people are ok with them when they're used to get criminals off the streets. However, I've seen multiple times where cops initiate a felony stop (where people are pulled out at gunpoint and detained) against a car they got a hit on - only to find out the person they really wanted wasn't driving or even in the car at all.

      What's interesting is businesses and houses have so many cameras nowadays that the first thing cops do when they get to the scene of a violent crime is canvas the area for camera's. So yeah, you can avoid FLOCK, but there are most likely hundreds of other camera's that will capture you driving through any given area.

    • gentile 45 minutes ago
      Download osm data, extract roads and surveillance, gpd overlay how=difference, remove/edit the different osmid's, write to pbf file, convert to obf file w/ osmandmapcreator, import into OsmAnd.

      Now you have turn by turn navigation around ALPRs on your phone.

      Edit: link https://github.com/pickpj/Big-B-Router - I tend to find ALPRs that are missing in the OSM data, so keep on updating OSM data.

      • ssl-3 34 minutes ago
        > Now you have turn by turn navigation around ALPRs [that we -- regular people -- know about] on your phone [while still being observed by the ones we don't know about].

        fixed that for you. :-/

    • CGMthrowaway 57 minutes ago
      > It may technically be possible to route a drive around them

      That's an interesting idea...

      • sodality2 54 minutes ago
      • baby_souffle 46 minutes ago
        I can't speak to flock but I know that other vendors in the space have software designed to calculate optimal locations to maximize probability at least one license plate scan for every trip taken.

        Presumably that software can then be used to upsell additional cameras because with an increased density your capabilities start to approximate real-time live position tracking instead of just getting approximate locations of hot plates.

    • iamtheworstdev 15 minutes ago
      wow. quite literally the only ones in my area are surveilling the county park / community center. that's creepy. I'll just have to assume they're doing something creepier at the public library.
  • cdrnsf 58 minutes ago
    Remember, according to Flock's CEO, Deflock is a terrorist organization.
    • mikece 19 minutes ago
      Yes, and according to Steve Ballmer (back in the day) Linux Torvalds was a terrorist. People are allowed to say stupid things.
      • jLaForest 13 minutes ago
        People are allowed to say stupid things....and those people should be held accountable for the stupid things they say
  • pietervdvn 55 minutes ago
    If you spot missing camera's - Flock or not - you can add them to OSM easily with https://mapcomplete.org/surveillance
  • owlninja 1 hour ago
    I added one a few months ago and went to go check it, and there are 2 others almost right on top of it pointing in different directions, I guess that can't be prevented? I'm fairly certain they didn't add two more ALPRs that close to each other.
    • ezfe 47 minutes ago
      You can go onto Open Street Map and tidy up the data. I would recommend surveying the actual situation first to ensure you don't mess anything up.
  • sanufar 9 minutes ago
    Jeez there’s a few all around my uni and surrounding areas, did not know about that at all.
  • drunken_thor 33 minutes ago
    Haha Sudbury and Napanee are the only places in Canada to have them. They are tiny cities where nothing happens. Bored police officers imagining situations where they are needed.
  • willis936 19 minutes ago
    Woof. There is one that I basically must drive by everyday close to where I live. How can I figure out who is responsible for its installation so I can let them know how I feel (and will vote) about it?
  • NoSalt 12 minutes ago
    I wonder how long until the site gets taken down. You know ... to protect the children.
  • slg 50 minutes ago
    Just anecdotally looking around my city, it's noticeable that the camera's locations have a much stronger correlation with areas of high wealth rather than high crime.
    • nomel 35 minutes ago
      Generally, only addicts steal from poorer people.

      And, where I am, you're more likely to have a gun if you're poor, because there's more exposure to crime, resulting in a much more realistic understanding that the police won't save you in an emergency.

  • glitcher 31 minutes ago
    In my area I'm seeing a few random ones on roadways, but mostly clusters of them in the parking lots of Home Depots, Lowes, and Wal-Marts.
    • doctor_radium 6 minutes ago
      Same here, but just Lowes stores. That I know of. I surveiled the two local Lowes roughly a month ago and found two cameras not mapped, which I gleefully added myself. Want to send them a snail mail complaint at some point stating they won't be getting my business until they step back from turning us into a police state.
  • tmshapland 6 minutes ago
    How do we make this site mainstream? The public would really start to push back if they could so viscerally experience that they are being surveilled multiple times per day.
  • cm2012 36 minutes ago
    What I am seeing is room for a lot more in my local neighborhood. Barely any coverage.
    • pwg 23 minutes ago
      If you know where some of them are, you can add the data yourself: https://mapcomplete.org/surveillance
      • cm2012 21 minutes ago
        I'm not saying the map is missing cameras, I am saying I would personally like to see more in my neighborhood (for crime reduction reasons).
        • jotux 12 minutes ago
          Maybe you could reach out to Flock directly and ask them to install cameras in your kitchen and bedroom too (for crime reduction reasons).
        • ssl-3 17 minutes ago
          Can you elaborate upon the kinds of crime reduction that these systems provide?
          • cm2012 6 minutes ago
            Isn't it obvious?

            > License plate is reported to police associated with a crime.

            > Cop looks up plate number

            > Flock Camera shows general status and location of that license plate.

            > Cops find the car involved with the crime, preventing further criminality.

          • baggy_trough 7 minutes ago
            They make it easier to arrest criminals, thereby changing the incentives for crimes.
  • runjake 1 hour ago
    Great site.

    Caveat: it does not seem to update camera statuses after initial reporting. I see several cameras that were removed long ago, or have been repositioned, but their old statuses remain.

  • tonymet 8 minutes ago
    I volunteer for my city & county , and I'm a privacy advocate, so I have an ambivalent opinion on Flock cameras. Given the completely untenable demands on law enforcement, and extreme driver recklessness , the only practical way to enforce law and order with drivers is some sort of automated surveillance.

    Since covid, driver recklessness has been out of control. Running reds, extreme speed, escaping police are all common. Pedestrian and cyclist injuries and deaths remain extreme. At the same time, the public demands more oversight and constraints on police , which reduces their ability to enforce the law.

    Imagine you are a policy maker, with worse driver behavior, and police force that are less able to enforce the law. What tools would you use to maintain law and order?

    If you don't want surveillance, you will have to make some other tradeoffs to allow human beings to better monitor the public and enforce the law. They are not omnipotent and omniscient creatures.

  • bigwheels 1 hour ago
    When your car gets stolen, suddenly nobody can access the data.

    Are there any coordinated efforts for widespread scrubbing or removal of these parasitic devices?

    • dylan604 52 minutes ago
      When your gets stolen, even with camera data, the police will not do anything.
    • StayHuman 45 minutes ago
      On the "coordinated efforts" front, some anecdata:

      Three separate posts on Craigslist in the Community section about Flock Cameras, trying to increase local awareness. Posted to two different cities, various posting iterations (e.g. with links / without, pics / no pics, etc.). All appeared to post fine when entered, but never saw the light of day and were marked as removed within a few minutes.

      Any other subject: posts fine.

      Try it yourself and see what you get.

  • avsavani 36 minutes ago
    love this , give me more cameras please , fuck those criminals.
  • baggy_trough 46 minutes ago
    This is great, we can see where more cameras need to be added around the neighborhood!