Flying a drone within 1/2 mile of ICE vehicles, which may be unmarked, is illegal? You can be flying a drone and if an unmarked ICE vehicle drives close enough, without warning, you have now broken serious FAA laws? This isn’t the kind of restriction that gets passed when the people making the rules care about being fair or consistent. It’s a power grab.
This is par for the course for rules regarding law enforcement. A group of armed men bust down your door in the middle of the night without identifying themselves. They're aiming guns at you and your family. Are you allowed to fire on them with your legally owned firearm? The law says yes, but also that police are allowed to be those people knocking down the door and shoot you if you aim a gun at them. So if that happens, who is in the wrong? Courts have been dodging the question, but in practice the answer is that you're going to be killed and the police won't be liable. You can do everything right and law enforcement is allowed to arrest you, steal your shit, destroy your property, or kill you, and officially you're the criminal for perfectly normal and normally legal behavior.
If by "courts" you mean appellate (precedent setting) courts, cases like these usually never get to that stage because cases like these are straightforward enough that juries can rule on them without lawyers getting into esoteric arguments.
I expect a court would rule against the government if they tried to enforce this against somebody unknowingly flying within a 1/2 mile of an unmarked ICE vehicle. I'd feel sorry for the poor soul that would have to fight it though.
Pfffff the rules for flying drones as set by the FAA are already draconian as is and that’s before you begin to run afoul of city/state rules. They’re usually banned in residential areas to begin with (without permits) so you’re screwed even before this rule. Hope you kept VLOS the whole time too or none of the other rules matter.
IANAL but mens rea is a serious consideration here. A prosecutor would have to prove that you have knowingly and wilfully committed the crime in order to be convicted, so unmarked cars are in practice out of scope.
I think the main implication is that you won't be able to use any drone recordings for legal action against ICE unless you can prove that you recorded from further than 3,000 feet (one hell of a camera) or that you did it "accidentally", e.g. I was just filming my friends and ICE agents suddenly busted out of an unmarked car that happened to be within the frame. Even then, you'd have to stop recording pretty soon because at that point they could argue that it becomes wilful recording.
yep. the disconnect you're feeling comes from thinking you're living within the normative state, when in fact you're under the prerogative state:
> The dual state is a model in which the functioning of a state is divided into a normative state, which operates according to set rules and regulations, and a prerogative state, "which exercises unlimited arbitrariness and violence unchecked by any legal guarantees".
I can't wait to see this tested in court. While IANAL the EFF sure has lawyers and their argument seems petty sound.
Really this just seems like a waste of government money. They can shoot down drones and arrest people but those people will get court cases and they'll win and the gov will (and has) have you pay out fines. I'm not a fan of paying people to harass others...
I don’t think they really care about paying out fines, that would be a cost of doing business. The point is to make sure that footage like the Pretti execution can never happen again, because that’s what tanks their support. If they have to pay out a bunch of fines to get that assurance, so what? The fines are paid by our tax dollars anyway, it’s not like they’re actually harmed or deterred by them.
This administration is overstepping legal bound left and right. If they want you in trouble, you'll be in trouble. Appeals to law, even if successful, will take too long.
that is the point - to make you scared to fly your drone, anywhere, anytime. That is among the main differences between democratic society and the rest - a citizen of democratic society knows the extent of his rights, and where he would be crossing the line into violation of law, and that makes the citizen pretty assertive in his rights. That assertiveness isn't compatible with the non-democratic societies (or with authoritarian abuses of power in a [still overall] democratic society).
Reminder that the most reliable way to prevent the rise of the far right is to implement robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance.
Support for such measures (welfare, healthcare, unionization, high taxes etc) is usually low among Americans.
I think a lot of the people behind the rise of fascism are ones who experience "status anxiety" as a constant baseline. Actual safety through a government of laws will never appease them.
Yes? At least in the US, the GOP has been working relentlessly for most of my life to reduce welfare, to reduce Medicaid, to make unionization difficult and to neuter existing unions, and most of all, cut taxes on the rich.
Right, so the idea is that right wing policy of cutting support systems is fueling right wing growth. People are dumb, or this is what they want? Both? Lol Seems weird though
The playbook has been to manipulate "low-information voters" by promising that you will attack a marginalized group of people. Get the voters to believe that you are on their side by echoing the fear and hatred they have for The Enemy.
Action against The Enemy replaces any action to directly address economic and social marginalization.
It's how we process information. Avoiding this cognitive glitch takes practice.
> Confusing, the right are the ones advocating for cutting these things?
This is where the racism comes in. As long as you believe that the social safety net cuts are disproportionally hurting the "other" more than you, you have plenty of space for the cognitive dissonance required to support the cuts even when they are negatively impacting your own situation.
Combine this with the fact that the right has two tiers, one of them made up of wealthy asset owners who politically push for the changes (and benefit from them in the form of extremely low taxes) and the second made up of working class people who can be convinced the changes are good as long it allows them to think those they see as below them will suffer more than they will.
Get yourself a nice feedback loop going in the form of hurting the poor, convincing them the source of their oppression is the "other" to get them to support even more austerity, repeat and you can explain a lot about the politics of much of rural America.
I would be very happy to do so if we had working infrastructure, education, and health care not coupled to the generosity of your employer.
Isn’t it the case anyway that if you add state, federal, local, property, capital gains, and sales taxes, add the money that you and your employer pays for healthcare, that you’re basically paying slightly more in taxes all-in?
What do you think “welfare state” means? Do you think “European-style” salaries solely occur because “European-style” people, for instance, have a different healthcare system?
Are you talking about the razor wire that the supreme court allowed the administration to remove from the Texas border? If so, a little disingenuous to say fences and barriors when talking about razor wire. If not, please cite your sources so we can all be informed.
Razor wire is a type of fence and barrier. But more importantly, why did the Biden administration fight in court for their right to remove razor wire from the Texas border? What does that action suggest about the attitude of the Biden administration towards people crossing the border illegally?
I always wonder what people who say these things think about the fact that we have someone in the white house who was mentioned in the Epstein files more than Jesus was mentioned in the bible. Whatever it takes to get rid of those pesky aliens right?
These are completely orthogonal. That’s cool if you want to appeal to an in group, but I think you’ll find that a huge portion of the country thinks that we should have rules around immigration. So do most other countries.
You should probably argue your actual position instead of “your guy bad my guy good”. This comment is more Reddit than HN.
The problem with political violence is that the other side will do the same thing, and you end up with an IRA situation where the country descends into sectarian violence.
>How many people died under the totalitarian regimes that preceded them? These oppressive regimes did not start in a vacuum.
You're proving my point. Political violence just leads to a cycle of more political violence and/or totalitarianism. The Chinese Communists, if you recall, were violently put down by the Nationalists in the civil war. Starting political violence to stop the "fascists", just condemns your society to that fate. Not to mention that people who engage in political violence aren't exactly the most sane people. What makes you think they'll stop at "fascists"? The Bolsheviks eventually turned against the Kulaks, once their allies, and Mao launched the Cultural Revolution to consolidate power and push out rivals.
>is that the other side will do it anyway and you end up dead.
Preemptive first strike logic[1] aside. This logic doesn't work because political violence never gets out of hand so fast that an entire political movement can be wiped out. On the other hand by starting/advocating for political violence you're almost certainly going to get the descent into sectarian violence before you can wipe out all the "fascists".
Remember posts like this and how they are so glib in the face of the autocracy. They will gaslight you, make you feel like you are the crazy one, and be the first to say you deserved it when you have finally have had enough and decided to push back.
In general the Trump administration is the most emergency based folks on the planet. If it's not for emergency reasons, it's for national security reasons. None of it is explained or backed. They just take the hallpass and fuck off to do whatever the hell they like.
Brazen mis-governance. I think it's particularly insulting to call so many things emergencies, threats. This is the work of the rankest, lowest cowards, to sabotage our nation with such false lightly thrown around accusations, for such fake purposes. Exploitative creeps!
Edit: what timing! Oh look, new Constitutional crisis just dropped, with Trump again seizing the power of the purse from congress! He's declaring rule over OMB to fund DHS, because (you guessed it) National Emergency!! https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2026/04/libe...
Thanks for the links. Hopefully things get bad enough people actually take control of government again. I personally used to scoff at CalExit but now seeing how easy it is for a government to abuse you from a distance, I would much prefer Sacramento the ultimate seat of power for my community, family and interests.
A marginally less-extreme option would be to start subdividing larger states.
The Constitution does not permit amendments to change the "equal" representation of states in the Senate, but we can even the playing field by making it easy for large states to subdivide for the benefit of the people.
Awesome idea: Texas can become four states, Northern California can become a state, Northwest Dakota, Northeast Dakota, and Upper New York can all become states too with equal Senate representation.
Or did you perhaps have some gerrymandering-esque idea to limit these 'benefits' to liberal metropolitan areas?
> Awesome idea [...] Or did you perhaps have some gerrymandering-esque idea to limit these 'benefits' to liberal metropolitan areas?
What? It sounds like you're crowing over some kind of "gotcha", but what is it?
If we both agree on the same principle, what's the problem? Namely, that citizens being disproportionately (un)represented in their "democratic" government is typically bad, and especially when it's just from ancient quirks of boundary line development.
On reflection, I suppose there's another explanation: Some people go through life with no real principles, flip-flopping based on whatever is temporarily advantageous to "their team". Is that it? Are you projecting your lifestyle onto me, and feeling the thrill of "winning" at being badder?
But they weren't just "ancient" quirks. They were commitments made to your fellow Americans in smaller states. Commitments that were required to allow the formation of the country at all; and as such should be shown a little more respect than being referred to as ancient quirks. That's not to say that they should be forever set in stone, but we should at least proceed with an honest portrayal of why we're in this situation in the first place, and what's at stake for the different parties affected.
> They were commitments made to your fellow Americans in smaller states. Commitments that were required to allow the formation of the country at all;
That's begging the question: Exactly what "commitments" are you claiming will somehow be broken, either in letter or in spirit?
At the time of ratification, smaller states were not promised that their future residents would always have disproportionate influence on the federal government... and they did not expect it either.
All the things they were promised remain: Every state still has equal votes in the Senate, and they agreed knowing that the intent was for new states to join up, and that it was possible for borders to be redrawn with the consent of those involved.
If there is any betrayal going on here, it's the one already occurring against the residents of high-population states, when a coalition of low-pop ones says: "We will undoubtedly veto any attempt to reorganize yourself inside your own borders, because we have acquired an unearned privilege of power and we refuse to let you be like us."
> But they weren't just "ancient" quirks.
How else would you describe the way populations grew in some places and not others over ~250 years, both in states and in pre-state territories?
Your comment reads like: "This blanket prohibition is justified, because any drone could potentially be dangerous or appear dangerous, and DHS deserves unique and special legal privileges to trample on your rights for some reason."
If you intended something different, it's not sufficiently obvious. The most-charitable twist I can come up with is: "In addition to the first amendment, could the second amendment also be a factor in striking down this policy as unjustified?"
> You can still film ICE / CBP from the ground.
The same logic, tomorrow: "How do you reeealy tell the difference between a phone and a weapon in someone's hand? It's too hard! It makes us scared! Don't film or else we'll jail you or kill you like Alex Pretti."
You don't, but legal precedent errs on the side of transparency and anyone who's flying a drone (legally) in an urban environment in the U.S. already has FAA permitting.
> How do you tell the difference between a drone with a camera and a drone with a grenade.
Today, it makes as much sense to worry about this as it does for me to worry about a tsunami hitting my home at 7200' above sea level. It's not happening, worry about it and implement policies when people start using grenade-drones.
> The anti-ICE protesters have been well organized, well equipped,
Civilians being well organized and well equipped (?) is a problem why?
> and sometimes violent
And yet the videos coming out of the US, of protesters being shot by ICE where non violent.
> for the purposes of collecting intelligence on their targets (who are federal law enforcement agents).
What does "target" mean exactly, I haven't read anything other than doxxing agents, annoying, and verbally harrasing them?
Also, I'd be more wary about the state if things when there's plethora news circulating of US law enforcement buying up all kinds of data for flagging undesirable citizens. More so when Palantir is involved and the developed tech is any authoritarians wet dream.
First amendment applies to citizens, not just “media organizations”. Serious contradiction between your major advocacy about protecting ICE and your minor hedge to avoid getting ghosted.
It's pretty amusing seeing someone really trying to do the "I'm just a casual observer here, but.." about this. Like who even is the intended audience for this pitch? Is there some critical analysis here you wanna push to convice people of something? It feels too casual to either be trying to change some minds or reinforce something already entrenched. Its like... nothing. Is this dead internet?
I'm not taking sides here, but it seems the government might want to soldiers to quarter in my home, search my refrigerator, and seize my lemon pound cake. These anti-slavery protestors have been well-equipped with Constitutional protections and occasionally resistant to infringements. I have no knowledge. Obviously, media corporations should have more rights than human beings for the purposes of explaining why everything is just absolutely fantastic.
It's not hard to find contradictions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge_standoff#Trials_of_...
If by "courts" you mean appellate (precedent setting) courts, cases like these usually never get to that stage because cases like these are straightforward enough that juries can rule on them without lawyers getting into esoteric arguments.
"ALL UNMANNED ACFT ARE PROHIBITED FROM FLYING WITHIN A STAND-OFF DISTANCE OF 3000FT LATERALLY AND 1000FT ABOVE."
That is somewhat narrowly defined. I'm sure you can still effectively film them from 1100ft.
further:
"FACILITIES AND MOBILE ASSETS, INCLUDING VESSELS AND GROUND VEHICLE CONVOYS AND THEIR ASSOCIATED ESCORTS"
I think you'd easily beat this language in court. "Please show us where 'mobile asset' is legally and narrowly defined."
I think the main implication is that you won't be able to use any drone recordings for legal action against ICE unless you can prove that you recorded from further than 3,000 feet (one hell of a camera) or that you did it "accidentally", e.g. I was just filming my friends and ICE agents suddenly busted out of an unmarked car that happened to be within the frame. Even then, you'd have to stop recording pretty soon because at that point they could argue that it becomes wilful recording.
Party of free speech, btw.
If I am flying my drone and an unmarked ICE vehicle drives within half a mile am I in trouble?
> The dual state is a model in which the functioning of a state is divided into a normative state, which operates according to set rules and regulations, and a prerogative state, "which exercises unlimited arbitrariness and violence unchecked by any legal guarantees".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_state_%28model%29
I can't wait to see this tested in court. While IANAL the EFF sure has lawyers and their argument seems petty sound.
Really this just seems like a waste of government money. They can shoot down drones and arrest people but those people will get court cases and they'll win and the gov will (and has) have you pay out fines. I'm not a fan of paying people to harass others...
Today, yes, but if the fascist cancer is around for too long, more and more judges will be its appointed tools.
That depends on whether you support Dear Leader.
(The answer is obvious - it's impossible to comply with it.)
Make no mistake, getting targeted by this will be severely punishing, even if the courts ultimately throw it out.
Support for such measures (welfare, healthcare, unionization, high taxes etc) is usually low among Americans.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/welfare-cuts...
Action against The Enemy replaces any action to directly address economic and social marginalization.
It's how we process information. Avoiding this cognitive glitch takes practice.
This is where the racism comes in. As long as you believe that the social safety net cuts are disproportionally hurting the "other" more than you, you have plenty of space for the cognitive dissonance required to support the cuts even when they are negatively impacting your own situation.
Combine this with the fact that the right has two tiers, one of them made up of wealthy asset owners who politically push for the changes (and benefit from them in the form of extremely low taxes) and the second made up of working class people who can be convinced the changes are good as long it allows them to think those they see as below them will suffer more than they will.
Get yourself a nice feedback loop going in the form of hurting the poor, convincing them the source of their oppression is the "other" to get them to support even more austerity, repeat and you can explain a lot about the politics of much of rural America.
Isn’t it the case anyway that if you add state, federal, local, property, capital gains, and sales taxes, add the money that you and your employer pays for healthcare, that you’re basically paying slightly more in taxes all-in?
It can’t actually solve societal problems, that requires progressives.
Perhaps, actions like that could have opposite reactions like… IDK… A majority of voters overwhelmingly selecting The Mass Deportations Guy?
You should probably argue your actual position instead of “your guy bad my guy good”. This comment is more Reddit than HN.
The problem with political violence is that the other side will do the same thing, and you end up with an IRA situation where the country descends into sectarian violence.
How many people died under the totalitarian regimes that preceded them? These oppressive regimes did not start in a vacuum.
You're proving my point. Political violence just leads to a cycle of more political violence and/or totalitarianism. The Chinese Communists, if you recall, were violently put down by the Nationalists in the civil war. Starting political violence to stop the "fascists", just condemns your society to that fate. Not to mention that people who engage in political violence aren't exactly the most sane people. What makes you think they'll stop at "fascists"? The Bolsheviks eventually turned against the Kulaks, once their allies, and Mao launched the Cultural Revolution to consolidate power and push out rivals.
Preemptive first strike logic[1] aside. This logic doesn't work because political violence never gets out of hand so fast that an entire political movement can be wiped out. On the other hand by starting/advocating for political violence you're almost certainly going to get the descent into sectarian violence before you can wipe out all the "fascists".
[1] Iran, anyone?
When is it warranted against you?
Let me guess, it never is because “your side” is never wrong and always “the good people”… right?
What an amazing coincidence!
This isn’t “two reasonable sides, and what if one comes for you?!” it’s one very clearly bad side.
Axios had good coverage of this. https://www.axios.com/2025/04/18/trump-national-emergency-de...
Brazen mis-governance. I think it's particularly insulting to call so many things emergencies, threats. This is the work of the rankest, lowest cowards, to sabotage our nation with such false lightly thrown around accusations, for such fake purposes. Exploitative creeps!
Edit: what timing! Oh look, new Constitutional crisis just dropped, with Trump again seizing the power of the purse from congress! He's declaring rule over OMB to fund DHS, because (you guessed it) National Emergency!! https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2026/04/libe...
The Constitution does not permit amendments to change the "equal" representation of states in the Senate, but we can even the playing field by making it easy for large states to subdivide for the benefit of the people.
Or did you perhaps have some gerrymandering-esque idea to limit these 'benefits' to liberal metropolitan areas?
What? It sounds like you're crowing over some kind of "gotcha", but what is it?
If we both agree on the same principle, what's the problem? Namely, that citizens being disproportionately (un)represented in their "democratic" government is typically bad, and especially when it's just from ancient quirks of boundary line development.
On reflection, I suppose there's another explanation: Some people go through life with no real principles, flip-flopping based on whatever is temporarily advantageous to "their team". Is that it? Are you projecting your lifestyle onto me, and feeling the thrill of "winning" at being badder?
________
In either case, more legislative details are in this older comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45690336
That's begging the question: Exactly what "commitments" are you claiming will somehow be broken, either in letter or in spirit?
At the time of ratification, smaller states were not promised that their future residents would always have disproportionate influence on the federal government... and they did not expect it either.
All the things they were promised remain: Every state still has equal votes in the Senate, and they agreed knowing that the intent was for new states to join up, and that it was possible for borders to be redrawn with the consent of those involved.
If there is any betrayal going on here, it's the one already occurring against the residents of high-population states, when a coalition of low-pop ones says: "We will undoubtedly veto any attempt to reorganize yourself inside your own borders, because we have acquired an unearned privilege of power and we refuse to let you be like us."
> But they weren't just "ancient" quirks.
How else would you describe the way populations grew in some places and not others over ~250 years, both in states and in pre-state territories?
The Nazis couldn't even manage it with a smaller population in six years.
"How do you tell the difference between a protestor with a camera and a protestor with a grenade?"
Do you see how the assumption of extreme (and very unlikely) danger is bad excuse for violating people's rights?
Filming ICE is no longer allowed.
If you intended something different, it's not sufficiently obvious. The most-charitable twist I can come up with is: "In addition to the first amendment, could the second amendment also be a factor in striking down this policy as unjustified?"
> You can still film ICE / CBP from the ground.
The same logic, tomorrow: "How do you reeealy tell the difference between a phone and a weapon in someone's hand? It's too hard! It makes us scared! Don't film or else we'll jail you or kill you like Alex Pretti."
Today, it makes as much sense to worry about this as it does for me to worry about a tsunami hitting my home at 7200' above sea level. It's not happening, worry about it and implement policies when people start using grenade-drones.
You can't until the overlord(s) you've delegated all your thinking to tells you what you saw.
I guess my comment may have been received better if I framed it in the devils advocate / steel manning context.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/man-who-threw-sandwich-a...
Civilians being well organized and well equipped (?) is a problem why?
> and sometimes violent
And yet the videos coming out of the US, of protesters being shot by ICE where non violent.
> for the purposes of collecting intelligence on their targets (who are federal law enforcement agents).
What does "target" mean exactly, I haven't read anything other than doxxing agents, annoying, and verbally harrasing them?
Also, I'd be more wary about the state if things when there's plethora news circulating of US law enforcement buying up all kinds of data for flagging undesirable citizens. More so when Palantir is involved and the developed tech is any authoritarians wet dream.