Number in man page titles e.g. sleep(3)

(lalitm.com)

99 points | by thunderbong 6 hours ago

11 comments

  • et1337 2 minutes ago
    Thousands of keystrokes saved by not having to type “man syscall”… and millions of hours lost by confused folks like OP (and myself)
  • mjlee 4 hours ago
    If you like man trivia (and why else would you be reading this?) you could check out the top comment at https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/405783/why-does-man...

    (discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27994194)

    • jedberg 2 minutes ago
      Another fun related one: If your username is Tyler and you run shutdown, instead of the usual message it will say "Oh, good morning Mr. Tyler, going down?"

      Discovered this in college when I was shoulder surfing a coworker who always used the username Tyler. When he typed shutdown I called it out, and he said, "wait, it doesn't do that for you? I always assumed it said that for everyone and just replaced the username!".

      (For those of you too young to know, it's a reference to an Aerosmith song)

    • qiine 3 hours ago
      "The developer of the man-db, Colin Watson, decided that there was enough fun and the story won't get forgotten"

      Haha! Adequate amount of fun was provided, please resume regular man activities.

    • porise 4 hours ago
      Reading this makes me wonder if Easter eggs are ever appropriate for something as ubiquitous as man.
      • jedberg 1 minute ago
        Almost everything had an easter egg in it back in the day. When computing was more fun and less serious.

        They fell out of favor when people realized they were a security issue, because it was a code path that rarely got tested.

      • embedding-shape 1 hour ago
        Personally I think ubiquitous software is even more important to have Easter eggs, because they're the most widely distributed, and we want as much joy as we could possibly have, before you know.
      • bombcar 3 hours ago
        Easter eggs are always appropriate but it is imperative (and important) to understand how they could affect anything and everything.

        Which means you need to usually make it explicit to call them (man --abba or something) than something that "surprises" the user.

  • beej71 2 hours ago
    My favorite piece of man trivia is from the source of the tunefs BSD man page, which contains:

        .\" Take this out and a Unix Daemon will dog your steps from now until
        .\" the time_t's wrap around.
        .Pp
        You can tune a file system, but you cannot tune a fish.
    
    https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/blob/main/sbin/tunefs...
    • pwdisswordfishy 52 minutes ago
      You can tune a fish, it's that the command for that is fish_config instead.
    • gmassman 1 hour ago
      I guess the joke is you can scale a file system or a fish, but can only tune a file system?
      • fragmede 1 hour ago
        Tuna is a type of fish so the joke is that they sound the same.
  • gerikson 4 hours ago
    > (... less common section numbers)

    One very important section number is 5 - it's for file formats. So if you forget the crontab format, you need to invoke `man 5 crontab` to read about it.

    • linsomniac 3 hours ago
      ... because if you do `man crontab` you get section 1, which does not document the crontab fields.
      • voidUpdate 3 hours ago
        In fact, the only reference to crontab(5) is in the SEE ALSO section (on my version anyway), but that doesn't say why you might want to see crontab(5), just that it exists. That is spectacularly useless
        • inejge 48 minutes ago
          > That is spectacularly useless

          Depends. If one is aware of the meaning of section numbers, that "(5)" is very obviously suggesting that there is a file format named "crontab" which is documented. It's also pretty reasonable to suppose that the command and the file format of the same name are related.

          A novice might miss the convention and the connection. Man pages are not quite novice material.

          • simoncion 13 minutes ago
            Hell, you don't even have to have a handle on what the section numbers mean for these things to be useful. The appearance of something in a "SEE ALSO" section indicates that the manual page author thought that that thing was both related to the thing being documented and worth reading if the current man page didn't answer all of your questions.

            I can't count the number of times that following the trail laid out by 'SEE ALSO' sections a step or three has lead me to the exact thing that I never knew I needed to be using. Chasing those sections down is almost always well worth the three to ten minutes spent.

            And, like, if one is expecting a man page to cover everything even vaguely related to what it documents in detail, and one doesn't feel one has ten minutes to spend reading things that people thought were important to bring to your attention... well, I guess one could go ask an LLM to slop out some related words. That'll probably take less than ten minutes, though correctness is not at all guaranteed.

      • driftcoder 2 hours ago
        man -k crontab is the real trick here. shows both sections so you don't have to already know the number exists.
        • voidUpdate 1 hour ago
          It only shows a description though.

          Incidentally, man --help on my machine shows "-k, --apropos equivalent to apropos", which isn't very useful. I know the two are equivalent, because they're on the same line of switches, what does it actually do?

          With some further man digging, apropos is actually a separate program that looks through man page names/descriptions for the argument. Unless you run it with no arguments, in which case it just outputs "apropos what?" Instead of an actual error message like "No search term provided" or something

          • simoncion 7 minutes ago
            > Incidentally, man --help on my machine shows "-k, --apropos equivalent to apropos", which isn't very useful.

            That's your hint to execute either 'man apropos' or 'man man'. Both tell you in detail what the flag and utility do.

            You seem likely to be very disappointed in the '-h'/'-H' output of utilities from the BSD tradition. The output is often a list of all of the (almost always exclusively short) options presented as a sea of characters... and nothing else.

      • IshKebab 3 hours ago
        That is incredibly stupid. A documentation system designed by someone who doesn't understand how people use documentation.

        If man was designed by someone with any taste at all it would at least give you a menu to select (1) crontab command, (5) crontab file format. Maybe we need a rewrite in Rust to fix that.

        • t-3 1 hour ago
          There are a multitude of manpagers and viewers and frontends. It's one of those things you can write yourself very easily.
        • ajross 2 hours ago
          > If man was designed by someone with any taste at all it would at least give you a menu [...]

          My goodness. Man was written on a paper teletype.

        • bpt3 3 hours ago
          Or a minor alteration to an existing program to support a good suggestion.

          Why is it that the Rust community thinks that the solution to every flaw in an application is a rewrite in Rust?

          • mattkrause 1 hour ago
            It might be more helpful to write a Rust-based snark detector first.
            • bpt3 36 minutes ago
              Could be, but I don't think so in this case given a cursory review of the parent poster's history.
        • rascul 2 hours ago
          It does that, depending on implementation.
  • PhilipRoman 4 hours ago
    Interestingly, the section doesn't actually have to start with a number. TCL man pages use the 'n' section and 'man' resolves them just fine despite the ambiguity. Conversely, manpage names can also start with numbers, although this is rare (I found only one such example: man 30-systemd-environment-d-generator)
  • chasil 3 hours ago
    The POSIX standard manual pages for the utilities can be found here:

    https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/idx/xcu.htm...

    These would all be in section 1, if I am correct.

  • kykat 4 hours ago
    I looked up what the numbers mean a couple of times, but always forget it immediately
    • burnt-resistor 1 hour ago
      Section meaning varies somewhat widely by *nix flavor.
  • s20n 2 hours ago
    For me man(3) is the most interesting of them all.

    Run `apropos . | grep "(3)"`; you'll be surprised how many libraries come with man pages for their functions (e.g; curl).

    Now I wonder if there are any IDEs that can automatically dial into these man pages and pull up documentation for functions?

    • burnt-resistor 1 hour ago
      There's guaranteed to be some sort of context-sensitive man plugin for vim &| nvim for shell scripts.

      Also, have you ever seen the DOS Borland IDE context sensitive help UX?

      • skydhash 24 minutes ago
        I think for Vim, it’s “K”. But for emacs, you only need to use “m-x man” and have a nice viewer.
  • pfdietz 2 hours ago
    I'm feeling old now.
  • LtWorf 5 hours ago
    Step 1: Read `man man`

    Step 2: Feel the urge to write an article about that

    • sakjur 4 hours ago
      I admire people who do that.

      Writing down what you learn cements knowledge, and sharing what you write might help someone else.

    • semiquaver 1 hour ago
      Ideally, read or write while listening to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Man
    • Stratoscope 4 hours ago
      Is there a man man man article that will explain how to read man man?
      • bombcar 3 hours ago
        The full documentation for man is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the info program is properly installed at your site, the command

                      info man
        
        
        Ah that crap is/was so rage inducing!
  • amelius 4 hours ago
    Confession. I think I haven't read manpages since stackoverflow and certainly not since LLMs.

    Perhaps the modern version of "man" should be a program you can talk to.

    • johannes1234321 1 hour ago
      That may "answer" a specific question. And all llms can do as they include manpages in training data (and any Agentic thing can search) however the value in reading documentation is that one can find different angles by learning about different options, which allow tontackle problems from a different perspective. The answer to a question is constrained by assumptions which are part of the question.
      • amelius 58 minutes ago
        My experience with LLMs is that they often give me different angles that I didn't think of.
    • Normal_gaussian 3 hours ago
      It's called Claude. Or Gemini-cli. Or any other agent capable of running man.

      "Hey <agent>, use `man` to help answer these questions about grep"

    • xigoi 4 hours ago
      Please no. I want to read the manual without having to talk to anything.
    • nicman23 4 hours ago
      i have made llms read manpages, it is great lol