16 comments

  • hx8 1 hour ago
    I had a thesis two months ago that you could detect predictors with insider knowledge and ride their coat tails and spent some amount of time staring at the data and running some ML algos to detect them. I learned some things about the market during this time, but did not succeed in my detection algorithm.

    * Polymarket is a bit more transparent with who placed what bet, so it's a good place to go to study winners.

    * The most consistent Polymarket winner I saw was placing 95%+ odds many, many times a day.

    * Most markets will have a surprisingly small liquidity, so if your edge is just 5% you won't make as much as a 5% edge in the stock market could make you. This is good in that it keeps the biggest fish out, but some big players seem to be using strategies based on holding the most chips.

    * Paper trading in Polymarket/Kalshi is very different than paper trading in the stock market, because even a few grand in Polymarket/Kalshi can have a big impact in how other "traders" interact with you. The traditional paper trade validation -> unleash the bot strategy doesn't work. You need to real trade with real money and scale up while watching how the market responds.

    EDIT: Bonus learning -- yes the market runs by getting fish into the system. That's why Kalshi is advertising so much, it attracts suckers for the professional to win from, all while Kalshi takes a percentage.

    • alexpotato 1 minute ago
      > I had a thesis two months ago that you could detect predictors with insider knowledge and ride their coat tails and spent some amount of time staring at the data and running some ML algos to detect them.

      Polymarket actually wrote an article about "copycat trading": https://news.polymarket.com/p/copycat

    • chillfox 49 minutes ago
      I used to work for a sports betting company that identified individuals who were a little too good. The key is to remember that they are addicts and will bet on events regardless of if they have insider knowledge or not, so you have to account for this and not only identify the individuals with insider knowledge, but also what events they have that knowledge about and what they don't.
    • PaulHoule 1 hour ago
      I used to play penny stocks for fun and it was a blast to be doing $3000 trades and be responsible for 30% of the volume for the day. You can learn a lot about how markets work if you adopt a penny stock, particularly the kind that trades in a wide range where you can buy in at 0.03 and figure "I'll sell when it hits 0.12" and sooner or later it does... then falls back down to 0.02.
      • roflyear 51 minutes ago
        You can "trade the news" with penny stocks (this is basically just buying when people first start talking about it then selling when more people are talking about it), but like you say, the liquidity is soooooo low that you have to be really careful if you plan to sell more than a few hundred dollars.

        Generally, you're going to lose money - so don't do it.

        • PaulHoule 38 minutes ago
          Like any kind of gambling you have to do it with money you can't afford to lose and if you want exposure to stocks it is hard to say that you shouldn't have a big chunk of your savings in something like $QQQ or $VOO.

          Myself I was working on finance-adjacent stuff at the time and thought it had educational value. I did OK trading my favorite penny stock but I've had my share of financial misadventures, like I just had to buy $XIV because I wanted to see what happened and... I did.

    • skinfaxi 1 hour ago
      > I learned some things about the market during this time, but did not succeed in my detection algorithm.

      What failed? Was it too late to follow the trend by the time one was identified or something else? It seems much more transparent than trying to reason about say dark pool trades.

      • hx8 1 hour ago
        I am unfamiliar with working with such signal-to-noise ratios.

        * I only had the example trades in the news as 100% confirmed positive trades.

        * There are hundreds of millions of dollars in trades a day in Polymarket.

        * In Polymarket you can just spin up a new account. If an account spins up, makes a $50k bet and wins, and then has no other activity, was that an insider trader or just someone with a behavioral pattern of spinning up new accounts? Just following up on these types of trades didn't provide a very big edge, as the nature of the trade adjusts the payout percentage.

    • ModernMech 34 minutes ago
      This is the trap of modern society. Think about what you're doing: instead of anything productive, you thought a good use of your time was sitting there staring at numbers, hoping to find a pattern to make money off of people; who in their own right are using insider information to game a system; which itself is set up to capitalize off the fact that the larger economy has failed, and now all that's left is to just make money off of guessing.
      • rwmj 0 minutes ago
        True, but hx8 isn't to blame here and was simply trying an interesting experiment. Blame the system instead.
  • cmiles8 1 hour ago
    This whole prediction market space seems like a 2026 version of ball and cup game betting. Most of the people participating fail to understand that they (and their pointless bets up for harvesting) are the product here.
    • david-gpu 48 minutes ago
      My intuition is that it is a lot like sports betting: many laypeople bet for what they hope will happen, rather than trying to beat the market earnestly.

      The winners, as you point out, are the house and those with insider knowledge.

      • Ylpertnodi 32 minutes ago
        ... like a horse that is held back for a while and comes in at 23-1.a
  • JohnFen 45 minutes ago
    Prediction markets are nothing more than gambling. Most people who gamble end up losing. If it were otherwise, running a gambling operation wouldn't be the enormously profitable endeavor that it is.
  • jeffwask 7 minutes ago
    So, the same as NFT's and Memecoin from the same people...
  • mathgradthrow 11 minutes ago
    Everytime someone loses money on a bad bet in a prediction market, it's an opportunity for them to learn something about counter-party risk. You could easily make the argument that the more people are losing in prediction markets, the more learning is happening.
  • ceejayoz 1 hour ago
    On a related note:

    "Someone allegedly used a hairdryer to rig Polymarket weather bets" https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/someone-allegedly-used-a-h...

  • 1vuio0pswjnm7 44 minutes ago
    Alternative is archive.is

    Text-only, no Javascript, no CAPTCHA, no DDoS on blog, no geo-blocking, HTTPS optional:

    https://assets.msn.com/content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/AA22jnEi...

  • ramon156 2 hours ago
  • Jtarii 1 hour ago
    Prediction markets are astrology for the boys.
    • tokai 1 hour ago
      Astrology is magical thinking and fraud so it checks out.
    • justinhj 54 minutes ago
      Astrology is more of a cost centre than a gambling venue, unless you consider choosing a life partner based on the stars.
  • tsunamifury 1 hour ago
    I ran the earliest predictions market online at the reboot of The Industry Standard.

    Prediction markets fatally suffer from two Problems.

    1) large sharks making huge bets at the end (destroying any signal from earlier bets)

    2) inside information on poorly written bets.

    The solution is parlay style payouts but that destroys popularity (you are paid out at closing odds not at your time of bet odds spread to sell position).

    • LargeWu 1 hour ago
      "The solution is parlay style payouts"

      I think you mean parimutuel payouts?

  • dist-epoch 2 hours ago
    > On Kalshi, too, losers vastly outnumber winners. Spokeswoman Elisabeth Diana said there are 2.9 unprofitable users for each profitable one based on data from the past month

    So 25% of users are profitable? That's vastly more than on financial sites - stocks/futures/forex/options trading where only 5% of bettors are profitable.

    • rybosworld 1 hour ago
      Are you confusing beating the market with being profitable?

      The majority of active traders won't beat the market (e.g. the S&P 500). That doesn't mean they aren't profitable.

    • JumpCrisscross 1 hour ago
      > vastly more than on financial sites - stocks/futures/forex/options trading where only 5% of bettors are profitable

      Source? I'm not doubting that there are products and forums where 95% of traders lose money. But that's far from representative for most financial-market participants.

    • boh 1 hour ago
      All those other markets are vastly bigger in scale and trade in trillions on a daily basis so it's an irrelevant comparison. Also the expectation is that the majority of that 25% are insiders. So you're comparing catching fish in a barrel where 25% of the participants hooked the fish prior to you getting a turn vs fishing in the open ocean (so 5% is pretty good with additional voting rights/tax benefits).
    • hiddencost 1 hour ago
      Uhm, I'd like to introduce you to our Lord and Savior index funds. Simply buy vtsax and forget for 30 years.
      • hnthrow0287345 41 minutes ago
        Maybe switch to European markets? Significantly more uncertainty and less stability around the US.
      • lenerdenator 1 hour ago
        If you're buying an index fund, you're buying because you'd like to see your money grow in a predictable, sustainable manner.

        If you're "investing" in a prediction market, you're "investing" because the alternative is going to your local casino, breathing in unholy amounts of cigarette smoke, and getting into a scuffle with a senior gambling their OASDI check over which slot machine you're sitting at.

        And that's just not something most tech bro types are interested in. It screams "loser", not "value creation and market disruption wunderkind".

  • josefritzishere 1 hour ago
    If by "sharks" you mean "inside traders" then yes.
    • skinfaxi 1 hour ago
    • orwin 34 minutes ago
      Not only that, huge UMA tokens holders can also rig some bets on a technicality without much effort, especially since big UMA token holders seems to know each others. If you bet against Zelansky wearing a suit to meet Trump, and that by all account, he seemed to be wearing a suit, but you don't want to loose the bet, the "Oracle"/UMA holders can decide that it wasn't, in fact, a suit, and your bet will win.
  • freejazz 1 hour ago
    People keep saying they provide the market with information, and that's the benefit of allowing the insider trading, but no one has pointed out how in any way society has benefitted from the insider trading instances so far...
    • dd8601fn 31 minutes ago
      The answer is pretty obvious, right? It doesn’t reliably deliver on that promise, and in the meantime they rake billions on unregulated gambling with near zero institutional exposure.
    • ApolloFortyNine 31 minutes ago
      It's useful for things like elections, where though popular media might push one line of thought primarily, the markets will adjust to be closer to the reality. Pretty visible in the 2024 elections where if you followed mainstream media at all, you probably wouldn't realize the markets had Trump at a 60% chance to win just before the election.

      But for so many things, there's just too many sources of insider info. Reality television especially, the last couple seasons of Survivor have been clearly leaked if you look at a prediction market. And since all of production knows, and obviously all the players know, someone tells their family members, and all of a sudden you have a few hundred people who know for sure who will win.

      • luisln 1 minute ago
        The 2024 prediction market had like several large bettors on the Trump side https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-10-25/polymarke.... The Harris side had no equivalent counter-whales. So the ~60% Trump prediction was not really reflecting reality, more-so individual conviction. A more retail-only market would likely have priced it closer to 52–55% Trump, which matches with what the pollsters and mainstream media said.
  • fortran77 2 hours ago
    > "John Pederson outside the homeless shelter in Detroit where he has been living since losing money on Kalshi...Pederson lost $41,000 on a mention-market bet related to hip-hop artist A$AP Rocky in January"
    • dvh 2 hours ago
      > At first, it worked. Pederson turned about $2,000 into close to $8,000 by betting on daily snowfall totals in Detroit
      • techdmn 1 hour ago
        I'm not a gambler, but when I consider it I think the worst thing that could happen to me would be to win a substantial but not life-changing amount of money. I think that's where most people get hooked. They get lucky once (or a few times), then get completely sucked in trying to replicate that success.
        • skinfaxi 56 minutes ago
          That particular set of circumstances is the ruin of many a lottery winner.
  • ath3nd 30 minutes ago
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