23 comments

  • ndiddy 1 hour ago
    The other day I read this piece on how AI is already being used in schools, and it left quite an impression on me. https://archive.is/IW4B3

    > The Chromebooks, which the students use in every class and for homework, came pre-installed with an all-ages version of Gemini, a suite of A.I. tools. When my daughter, who is in sixth grade, begins writing an essay, she gets a prompt: “Help me write.” If she is starting work on a slide-show presentation, the prompt is “Help me visualize.” She shoos away these interruptions, but they persist: “Help me edit.” “Beautify this slide.” The image generator is there, if she’d ever wish to pull the plug on her imagination. The Gemini chatbot is there, if she ever wants to talk to no one.

    I'm not as anti-AI as the author of the piece, and I think that AI could have a role as a teaching aid. It's infinitely patient and it's able to adapt to a student's needs better than a textbook. Still, I hate the idea of students being encouraged to entirely offload their cognitive work onto an online service rather than think for themselves. The point of making fifth graders write essays, make art, design presentations, etc isn't the end product, it's that they now have the experience of having done the assignment. I would rather see students get taught how to think creatively, analyze a piece of writing, coherently explain an opinion, or draw a picture on their own, rather than giving this up in exchange for the nebulous skill of being "AI native" (aka being able to ask a computer to produce work for you).

    • techjamie 4 minutes ago
      > If she is starting work on a slide-show presentation, the prompt is “Help me visualize.” She shoos away these interruptions, but they persist: “Help me edit.” “Beautify this slide.”

      To be fair, making slideshows sucks and I've never met anyone that actually enjoys the experience. I'm sure some people out there enjoy it, but anything that gets me out of PowerPoint faster is a win in my book.

    • NewsaHackO 37 minutes ago
      Yeah, I cannot imagine how anyone could learn anything well with access to AI. I am grateful that I finished my schooling before AI hit mainstream, because it is just too easy to turn your brain off and just AI a question before thinking about it. Great for getting things done, useless for learning. I guess hallucinations still keep us on our toes.
      • fasterik 9 minutes ago
        "Useless for learning" is just wrong. I've found LLMs immensely useful for directing my learning projects. Of course, a lot of the actual learning must come from doing things and puzzling through them myself. But I now find LLMs to be indispensable in finding out what I need to learn to accomplish a task, finding keywords to search on Wikipedia or in textbooks, and answering questions when I'm confused about something.
    • red_admiral 16 minutes ago
      We had chromebooks in schools before AI - or iPads, depending on the area. We're about to repeat that disaster.
    • biophysboy 30 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • samagragune 32 minutes ago
    The conflict of interest is pretty obvious. OpenAI, Google, and Microsoft are backing a bill that funds teaching kids to use... OpenAI, Google, and Microsoft products. "AI literacy" as defined in the bill is literally "the ability to use artificial intelligence effectively." That's not literacy, that's onboarding lol. Real digital literacy teaches how systems work, who profits from them, and how to think critically about them. This bill will in practice hand curriculum design to the same vendors who endorsed it. Teaching kids to prompt ChatGPT is not the same as teaching them to understand what ChatGPT is. Nobody funding this wants the latter.
    • devanshranjan 29 minutes ago
      we'd have raised a generation of users not builders. thats exactly whats about to happen with AI if this passes as written.
  • schnitzelstoat 1 hour ago
    It reminds me of the 'IT Literacy' classes we had when I was in high school where they just taught us to use Microsoft Office products.
    • Kadecgos 1 hour ago
      A lot of those were definitely sponsored by MS and co as well, but at least you did learn a practical, transferable, morph-able skill. You'll come out of that with experience using the features and structures of a general purpose OS, as well as the workflow of mode-base production software (in some cases). Excel at least is also just such a powerful 'everything' tool that I'm not even that mad about it.

      'AI Literacy' is just very much not that at all and is just state-mandated brain rot.

      • HeWhoLurksLate 24 minutes ago
        I was started on learning how to make PowerPoint presentations and present them in kindergarten, and I'm incredibly thankful for that. More broadly, building a slide deck is a critical part of public speaking and presenting and helps kids out a lot.

        In third grade I got taught how to type properly and hit 60-70 WPM, which is roughly where I still type to this day when doing tasks that require thinking instead of just doing a pre-compiled speed benchmark.

        Kids really need to learn the fundamentals of things, but on the other hand some of the same arguments came out when calculators were going mainstream and classes just evolved to take the new tools into account. I think eventually we'll see the same thing happen with AI, but I'm not sure what that will look like for every case yet. Probably more paper and pencil work tbh

      • maniiijiii 1 hour ago
        [dead]
    • linguae 10 minutes ago
      We had the same requirement at my high school in Sacramento back in the early 2000s. I was given the option to test out of it, since I already knew how to use Office, which I had been using at home since fifth grade for reports and presentations. I had to study harder for Excel and Access, since most high school students don’t need sophisticated spreadsheets or databases, but I passed the exam on my first attempt.

      A far better computer literacy course was the one I took at Sacramento City College as a dual-enrollment student in summer 2004, which was the prerequisite to programming courses. Even though I already knew how to program in QBASIC, Visual Basic 6 and C++, I still had to take this course. Anyway, we learned very basic computer architecture (the roles of the CPU, memory, storage, buses, etc.), the role of the operating system and the difference between it and applications, computer networking, the Web (with an introduction to HTML and CSS), the history of computing, and a brief introduction to programming, with exercises in C++ and even Scheme (the professor showed us his copy of SICP and threatened students who talked during his lectures with Scheme homework assignments).

      It was a fun class. The professor knew I was a Linux fan, but I had a hard time downloading a distro at home due to my having dial-up. He gave me some FreeBSD install CDs. I became a fan of FreeBSD since, and exploring FreeBSD led me down a rabbit hole where I devoured the history of Unix and BSD. By the time I graduated from high school, I wanted to be a systems software researcher like Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie. This shaped my early career; I’ll never forget meeting Marshall Kirk McKusick my senior year of college at USENIX FAST 2009.

      Turned out that computer literacy course I was required to take at Sacramento City College despite having computer literacy had far-reaching impacts in my life.

    • ThatMedicIsASpy 19 minutes ago
      Logo, MS Office, Counter-Strike 1.0-1.6, PHP, War§ow, Quake, ..

      01010101 0123456789ABCDEF AND OR XOR, ..

    • jcgrillo 1 hour ago
      Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing
    • lloydatkinson 41 minutes ago
      I had the same experience in the UK around 2005 to 2011, I wonder if it's the same everywhere?

      I feel that my experience was far worse and bordering on the absurd and bureaucratic. We spent years following instructions, taking screenshots of us opening specific windows and dialogs in Office etc, saving all these screenshots into a Word document, and then printing the document.

      To be clear, it was every single action you took. Moved the mouse to "Insert"? Don't click it yet, take a screenshot of your mouse on the "Insert" button, and then click it, and take a screenshot of the menu that opened. Then, take more screenshots of moving your mouse to buttons and lists in dialogs that opened. Then, take a screenshot of the document with the thing you just inserted.

      Now, write several paragraphs in detail about what you just did. Print everything, and that includes both the document you just created for the exercise and then the document writing about the document creating exercise with all it's dozens of screenshots.

      Each individual printed piece of paper needed to be kept in a plastic wallet, which was then kept in document folder. In the end we had multiple of these document folders that were without a doubt a complete waste of paper and time.

      The argument was that it was needed in case the exam board decided it needed to double check the teachers scores, which I think never happened once anyway. There was never once a reason given for why each individual piece of paper needed to be put in a plastic wallet.

      This was during a period of time where CS education at schools had essentially totally vanished from the curriculum for decades, it was added back after I'd finished school.

      Words cannot describe how much I despised the entire ordeal. There simply are not enough words to describe the total absurdity of an IT class requiring screenshots of clicking buttons and being printed onto paper.

      While the teacher was trying to explain how to add PowerPoint transitions I was writing scripts that would fetch currency conversions and graph them because I was that bored. One time I write some terrible "chat" system via some type of free shared HTML/PHP hosting and meta tag based auto refreshing of the chat history for a few class friends to talk across the room.

  • marricks 1 hour ago
    > Young people increasingly hate AI[1], and children already struggle with AI-enabled harassment that traumatizes them and disrupts their learning. And studies show kids are offloading learning onto AI models, undermining their education and social development.

    [1] https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/920401/g...

    The coyote is already running beyond the cliff so indoctrinating kids won't save them from an AI winter 6-18 months away.

    • bigyabai 53 minutes ago
      I swear that I read this same "6-18 months" timeframe 3 years ago.
  • wtetzner 2 minutes ago
    If AI worked as advertised then "AI Literacy" would just be "Literacy".
  • fantasizr 1 hour ago
    this is a step beyond the drug dealers who give you the first sample for free. Attempts at legally mandated injection sites.
    • mghackerlady 1 hour ago
      Not the first time this has happened. There was a big push for schools to teach windows and microsoft office while conveniently ignoring other things exist. Nowadays some have moved to the google office suite which isn't that much better
      • fantasizr 1 hour ago
        the textbook companies give the hard sell too but it's more honorable with traditional palm greasing and what not
  • moolcool 23 minutes ago
    This is way too close to the Simpsons joke about the periodic tables provided by Oscar Mayer

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pohXWbMrXZI

  • rebolek 1 hour ago
    Of course they will back it up. Nice source of income.
    • excrementfan 1 hour ago
      [flagged]
      • kerkeslager 1 hour ago
        So what? AI companies are buying laws, and a lot of people thinking that's true doesn't make it less true.
  • saidinesh5 42 minutes ago
    Putting all the cynicism side.. it's amazing how big the changes in how we deal with information in our life time changed..

    When I was younger, to solve a problem, we had to memorize a large amount of information. Or know someone who does. Or visit libraries and pray they have a book on what you need.

    Then came the internet. All of that memorizing was replaced by web searches. You just focus on solving the problem, figuring out what you don't know and searching for that.

    Now, it feels like we're automating the searching, connecting the dots and most of the problem solving. We focus on the high level problem description, verification of the results.

    I wonder what they'd be adding to this curriculum.

    Now, it feels like we're even offloading

  • wiseowise 45 minutes ago
    Got to train serfs early!
  • slopinthebag 1 hour ago
    Gotta get em hooked while they're young.
  • kmeisthax 1 hour ago
    If by "AI literacy" they mean "learning how AI works and how to use it effectively", then this probably would wind up backfiring. Because when you improve people's AI literacy, they use it less. They don't swear off it, but because they know what it is and is not good for, they are way more cautious in their application of AI.

    Of course, they probably plan to do to education what iPads did to education: deskill children. Apple successfully abliterated the concept of a file from a generation of students by making them do their computing in a straitjacket. I can only imagine how an AI-first or AI-only educational curriculum could make kids even worse at using computers.

  • HomeDeLaPot 1 hour ago
    Maybe a more general focus on getting students to practice critical thinking and fact-checking would be better. AI could be addressed as a small part of that, since chatbots are everywhere and students need to know how to filter out their BS.

    But are NSF grants really necessary for this? To what degree is this funneling taxpayer money to buy ChatGPT subscriptions and advertise to students by getting them to use AI in the classroom?

  • Darwins_Toffees 21 minutes ago
    Imagine telling parents that the new teacher they hired to teach their children just makes shit up like 30% of the time.
  • jmclnx 27 minutes ago
    What a big waste of $, for an example how did the 'coding' schools go ? AI literacy will go the same way.

    How about funding something useful ? Like real literacy as in reading books ? That will help kids out far better than "AI literacy".

  • hsuduebc2 1 hour ago
    Of course they do when it must be taught on their products which will hook the users in time and make some money.
  • nalekberov 1 hour ago
    What is ‘AI Literacy’? How to prepare a prompt for maximum token efficiency?
    • wiseowise 42 minutes ago
      Where to buy the subscription, how to convince parents to buy Pro instead of Plus, prevent original thought as early as possible, so they stay addicted - sorry I meant empowered - asap.
  • nathan_compton 49 minutes ago
    This is the reason I recently ran for my kids school board. I use AI every day and I think there is a lot of utility there, but I don't want it anywhere near my kids school. Honestly, I don't think kids need to even lay eyes on a screen until they are in highschool.
  • sublinear 1 hour ago
    It will be interesting to see the backlash to this one.
  • cavino 1 hour ago
    The thing about AI is it'll teach you how to use it (aka 'AI literacy').
  • righthand 1 hour ago
    I thought AI was so easy to use no one would have to be trained? Are they going to teach the kids to steal copyrighted data? And write AI slop articles? And to evangelize useless side projects as time savings?
    • frangonf 1 hour ago
      Kids don't need to be trained in AI but the models do need to be trained by kids.
    • noobermin 1 hour ago
      The drug dealers get to get them hooked young.
      • spwa4 1 hour ago
        Come on, AI can work both ways. It's easy to use AI to greatly increase your knowledge of a subject. It's also easy to use AI to prevent yourself from having to learn anything.

        Both kinds of students will exist.

        • kerkeslager 1 hour ago
          > It's easy to use AI to greatly increase your knowledge of a subject.

          It's actually not.

          It's easy to get an AI to say a lot about a subject, but that doesn't mean anything the AI said was true. There's a significant risk that the AI has simply hallucinated the information, and now you "know" a bunch of false ideas about the subject, which is worse than not knowing anything about it.

          • veber-alex 30 minutes ago
            Right because without AI everything you read on the internet is 100% true and correct.

            Learn how to use AI properly just like any tool and you can benefit.

            • contagiousflow 13 minutes ago
              Can you explain the differences between using AI "properly" and "improperly" for learning?
        • xienze 1 hour ago
          > Both kinds of students will exist.

          Yeah and I'm betting there's gonna be a whole lot more "press the button to have all your work done for you" students than "work hard" students. FFS even before all this there's been an alarming number of students attending college who have to take remedial classes.

    • zamadatix 40 minutes ago
      It's K12 so I'm honestly not going to try to take that dunk, as satisfying as it'd be, as plenty of things which seem blazingly obvious/intuitive to adults are complete mystery to a pool of kids where being able to read to learn (instead of the other way around) is a recent development.

      Unfortunately, the AI literacy big tech companies want to push won't align very well with the AI literacy kids need. It'd be like ad literacy for K12 being pushed by Google - obviously what's delivered would not match what the kids actually needed.

    • SpicyLemonZest 33 minutes ago
      If you're curious about these questions, you'll be happy to review the links from the source article, which include statements from two Senators and the head of the largest US teacher's union about what they hope for kids to learn.
      • righthand 24 minutes ago
        Will the kids who miss the important parts of training miss out on being able to use AI effectively? It should be easy enough for them to use without training…
        • SpicyLemonZest 13 minutes ago
          Why do you presume that it should be easy enough for them to use without training? Keyboards are a pretty simple technology, and serve as a subset of the primary interface to most modern AI models, but training is still required to use them well. A user who's never learned proper keyboard skills will type much more slowly and with much more frustration than you or I can, and that will have meaningful impacts on their ability to perform tasks requiring a keyboard.

          It's just a kind of training that's receded into the background as "normal", and that many of us who enjoy recreationally typing out comments on the Internet self-taught.

          • righthand 6 minutes ago
            I didn’t learn writing, speaking, research skills from typing out comments on the internet. I was required to use hand written note cards up until I graduated high school (heck even had blue book tests in college). The first paper I ever wrote was hand written. When we did start using computers, none of those skills were altered by passive internet chatting.

            So AI training is going to be a basic communication course? Because AI is sold as being easy to use without training and as modeled after existing human social constructs, hence artificial intelligence.

  • maniiijiii 1 hour ago
    [dead]
  • charcircuit 1 hour ago
    The entirety of school should eventually be replaced with just this one class. AI is able to teach people anything they may want or need to know and it can design effective ways for people to study. Being able to use, interpret, and work together with AI is going to be one of the most important skills of the 21st century.
    • wiseowise 39 minutes ago
      > Being able to use, interpret, and work together with AI is going to be one of the most important skills of the 21st century.

      But I thought the models are so good we don’t need humans anymore?

    • Darwins_Toffees 24 minutes ago
      You know why most kids don't do this already, because they don't know what they don't know. Telling a 2nd grader to go learn anything they want is not going to have the result you apparently think it will.
    • AnimalMuppet 1 hour ago
      Maybe so. Still, learning how to tell when the AI is blowing smoke is going to be an important skill, and I'm not sure that AIs are going to be great at teaching that to you.

      And learning when other people (AI salespeople, say) are blowing smoke is also an important skill. Again, I'm not sure that AIs are great at teaching that.

    • armitron 59 minutes ago
      This level of naivety is characteristic of certain SV types where wishful thinking is the order of the day. We're already living through the disastrous effects of the "social media" revolution and this is going to be much more of the same, with even worse negative effects on society.

      Just imagine what this will do to critical thinking, interpersonal relationships and family dynamics in a country where illiteracy is rapidly climbing. I don't think it's a stretch to write that if the unrestrained capitulation in terms of societal costs towards big tech continues, we're setting ourselves up for {generational, class-based} conflict that will rip our country to pieces.