Unknowable Math Can Help Hide Secrets

(quantamagazine.org)

48 points | by Xcelerate 3 days ago

3 comments

  • ksd482 5 hours ago
    Is the approach analogous to one way hash? But with mathematical statements?

    Given that they can’t be proven, so it’s effectively unpredictable and “un-generatable” ?

  • zb3 3 hours ago
    > to create a powerful new tool in cryptography.

    What is that new powerful tool in cryptography, then?

    > He wanted to build zero-knowledge proofs that weren’t interactive. Thirty years earlier, Goldreich and Oren had established that such proofs are impossible.

    I'm not sure what "interactive" means here, but I thought ZK-SNARKs were already non-interactive.

    It seems the article has nothing to do with anything practical..

    • twotwotwo 1 hour ago
      The fielded systems require something that wasn't there in the original model of zero-knowledge proofs. That could be as little as a trusted-enough public source of randomness: the prover makes their initial commitments, plays the verification game with a verifier whose challenges are controlled by the next outputs of the public RNG, and as long as the other party trusts that the RNG and prover aren't in cahoots, that's enough. Doing a trusted setup process beforehand is another tool used by a bunch of deployed systems.

      That doesn't mean anything's practically wrong with the fielded ZK proof systems, just that's how you reconcile the article's "no non-interactive proofs under these assumptions" with people out in the real world using non-interactive proofs.

      This paper brings up another logical possibility, that there could be a non-interactive proof with no RNG or setup that doesn't meet the precise original definition of zero-knowledge proofs but is zero-knowledge practically speaking. I don't know whether we'll actually see better fielded ZK proof systems come out of this approach!

    • avazhi 1 hour ago
      Quanta moment.

      I think Daily Mail links would be more informative, unironically.

    • newsicanuse 3 hours ago
      Typical of Quanta magazine
    • calmbonsai 3 hours ago
      You are correct. I suspect Quanta just needed some sort of "math filler".
  • HoldOnAMinute 4 hours ago
    How is this not security through obscurity?
    • majorchord 4 hours ago
      If math is STO then I would argue passwords are also STO.

      It's only secure until someone figures it out.