SpaceGremlin (mac alternative to WinDirStat) has a similar thing, where some features only work in the independent "SpaceGremlinPro" version downloaded from their site. However, they do some cool stuff with licensing - you can point it to the app store paid/installed version, and it detects the license and unlocks.
If you're worried about people not trusting payment to you, might be worth seeing if you could implement this, so anyone who bought on the app store can still access the full feature set. Cuts you out 30% like, but better than nothing maybe.
There is something amusing about the fact that WinDirStat, as far as I know, was based on KDirStat (now QDirStat), yet this doesn't even get mentioned on their Wikipedia page, and by and large a lot of people don't even know QDirStat exists. One time someone even asked me if they knew of a good alternative for Linux; good news!
Same. My experience with the “concept” of Wikipedia was very high until I had the “direct experience” of Wikipedia, and I realized that the encyclopedia of the commons may not have planned for me to be in the commons.
Everything I ever added was kept, and I was permanently banned. I created [ciation needed], started the admins noticeboard, reworked the USA Patriot Act article, wrote numerous articles for WiR with extensive referencing, contributed to peer review and good article reviews, and a shitload more, but nope. Not good enough.
Why anyone would contribute to that cesspool is anyone’s guess.
Space Gremlin isn't even available on the App Store anymore, presumably because it hasn't been updated to newer versions of macOS. Meanwhile, GrandPerspective is free and uses the exact same visualization as WinDirStat (although the UX is a bit weird for me)
I recently built a similar app, and so hit the same limitations – I wasn't too upset on Mac, happy to distribute without the App Store (though it's a shame).
Where I was more frustrated was how much this limited the potential usability of the iPhone app. Because of app store restrictions it is a far worse app ... though like in your example, still useful to a degree.
I can only hope they use the new CEO as an opportunity to seriously re-evaluate their entire approach to how they work with developers, though I'm not actually expecting them to. If anything, with the increase in apps being created via AI tools I worry they will go the other way.
I really do understand the desires people have for iOS to be a more open platform, but I'm just gonna say very clearly: I do not want third party apps being able to do what OP's app does. My iPhone is the one computing platform I have where I get the assurance that no third party app can be spying on anything else I do on the device.
iOS generally lets you reject any permission an app asks for. This would certainly be "risky" enough that iOS would require explicit user permission, and you would be able to say no.
On top of that, the app is completely optional: if you aren't comfortable giving it those permissions, don't install it?
The Accessibility permission is not granted automatically to apps on the Mac. You have to specifically allow it for an app. So you retain control and assurance even without Apple lockdown.
As someone who also experience pains in their hands after a couple of hours of typing... I started to use the great open source app called ghost-pepper [1] that i found on github and has been my daily driver (its like superwhisrp but oss/free and local)
the maintainer is really nice and replies to DMs really quickly too.
I am big fan of VoiceInk which is also local and open-source. I also maintain this list of all the best open-source ones in this awesome-style GitHub repo. People looking for open-source dictation tools, hope you find something that works for you here: https://github.com/primaprashant/awesome-voice-typing
As someone that have tried a few of these apps, I really like this one. I dictated this one just now with ghost pepper. Thanks Matt and thanks orliesaurus for sharing it here!
This is what happens when you run an OS controlled by some random big corporation. I dont mean that it's the person's fault, but just that you should not rely on Apple. they allow you to use your computer, but on their terms.
Install some GNU/Linux distro and you can do whatever you want.
Maybe more like “Learn how to replace an AC filter by yourself instead of calling an AC repair company”
I just installed PopOS on a laptop recently, and… it just worked. There’s an app store for noobs that I think installs flatpaks. GPU drivers just work. Whole disk encryption. Everything just works.
I don’t see what else my grandma that just uses Facebook would need. Maybe automatic updates?
No. Changing one's primary operating system takes time, dedication, and is a lifestyle change, similar to moving somewhere remote. Changing ones AC filter is none of those things.
If you and your grandma only rely on the computer for its web browser, then good for you. You have flexibility that is not afforded to most people. But that's not how a person's phone works; phones dig a lot deeper into one's lifestyle, intentionally so. The walled garden was constructed to keep outsiders out, but now it seems the primary purpose is keeping those inside hostage.
Nobody in my life even notices when they change their 'primary operating system.' They buy a phone based on what looks cool at the time, sometimes it's android, sometimes it's iphone. They move freely between chromebooks, windows, and mac os, because everything is online anyway. It's only 'experts' who have trouble with this.
I'm the IT guy to most of the elderly people in my life, and steadily switching them over to Linux Mint over the years. Fact of the matter is, most of them use their OS as a gateway to their web browser, and don't care to do anything else with it. For many non-technical users, switching OSes is literally a non-thing. The only difference vs Windows is that they call me for assistance way less frequently.
If a 15 years old can do so (me) then other people can do so as well. I did not feel uncomfortable at all when i first installed ElementaryOS and then moved to Fedora. everything just works, i never ever had to worry about drivers or stuff like that
Sure. Can you go down my well to replace the pump? Can you figure out what shots my cat needs? Can verify my companies books balances via GAAP? Can you tell me what the correct slump we need to make sure this bridge stands? The list of things I can ask goes on much much longer. In all cases you can learn to do that, but you cannot live long enough to learn to do all of the above.
As a 15 year old your mind is flexible in ways that most people's are not. As you get older you will realize the cost of changing the way you are used to doing things. Take advantage of your young brain and try all the things
I've been using Linux for about 27 years now and yet there are still some things I begrudgingly use Windows for (can also rephrase: one machine that does certain things).
I own more (and have them running right now) machines with linux than anything else and yet I'm not saying people can just switch. The problem is usually not "can do at all costs" but "can do with a reasonable addition of extra steps/relearning/tool does not exist/etc". There's some nuance and when I have some spare time I will (again) try to switch that one machine, but "it just works" maybe can also mean you're not using it for a diverse enough set of things.
In my case the reasons are actually quite boring: some hardware I couldn't get running and some (maybe minor) things that drive me nuts. The hardware is kind of a deal breaker atm. And yes, some people do a lot more weird things at home, my work machines were running Linux for 90% of the time since 2010ish.
I run Linux across a dozen thin clients and a server class desktop in my home lab. It's rock solid for home assistant, proxmox, routing, etc etc. Set it (hours and hours of work) and forget it exists.
I couldln't imagine having the time to set it up as a daily driver that handles my daily workflows, hardware needs, etc. Terminal in OS X is a close enough approximation out of the box and goes beyond it in DX (IMO) with very little additional setup.
PopOS completely shit the bed for me on a major version upgrade, left the system is a completely inconsistent state. Luckily I was only trying it out on one (multi-boot) laptop and could easily switch, but it's put me off Pop OS.
> If you don't like being oppressed, just move to Antarctica
No - moving to far away areas is not the right analogy. After
all you need to have use cases where those huge companies
do not control your business. So the alternative is to avoid
becoming dependent on them; or cut off the dependency when
possible.
Unless... you have a personal or professional need to use apps that don't work on Linux.
I tried very hard to switch to Linux full time some months ago, but I couldn't find a way of getting Microsoft Office to work satisfactorily. There are clever packaged versions of Outlook and Teams, but I need full native installed versions of Word/Excel/Powerpoint, and there just wasn't a good solution. That was a deal breaker, sadly, so I'm back on Mac for the time being.
Other examples would be some of the popular games with anti-cheat that requires Windows.
Fair. I run Nobara on my gaming computer and built a similar dictation tool there with no API restrictions, so the trade-off is real. For this project I chose both: App Store reach for the compliant version, direct distribution for the full one. But I know other people wouldnt be comfortable with running something like that so I built this somewhere my mom could use it
You're missing the point: it isn't about the OS. The direct distribution version of the app has full functionality. The problem is with the Mac App Store.
Apple is hardly a random big company. Apple's customers specifically chose to purchase the product. Most of their customers don't realize the significance of the exposure to copy and paste between Apps. Apple has taken the position that monitoring this exposure is part of their duty to the customer. Anyone that is aware of this shortcoming in Apple's product is free to purchase a different device.
>This is what happens when you run an OS controlled by some random big corporation
You get a channel for installing apps, where someone vetoes random apps that want to have access to control your whole computer and potentially steal sensitive data?
>Install some GNU/Linux distro and you can do whatever you want.
And any random app can get total control and steal your data, unless you know how to enable restrictions. I'd rather have restrictions as the default, and for the most naive users who'd follow every app prompt, and then cry about their lost work/private documents/money, no way to bypass them.
It's not true that any app can get total control of your system. If you install them via flatpak, the apps are sandboxed. Also, unless you log in as root, the apps can't do much. Wonder why the most important systems in the world and big tech's servers run GNU/Linux? There's a reason
I dont wanna start a war over this btw, even though it may not seem :)
The acronym is unfortunate, you're not wrong. MITM here is "Moogle In The Machine" (the Final Fantasy moogle + machine learning), but the security-context joke is fair and I hear it constantly.
What API are you using? I have a sandboxed app on the Mac Store that synthesizes CGEvents to simulate arbitrary keyboard actions on behalf of the user. It needs accessibility permission, of course.
Same approach: CGEventPost with Accessibility permission. The wrinkle was that my App Store reviewer wasn't comfortable with how I was using AX permission for auto-paste, even though the mechanism is the same as other apps already in the store. The clipboard-only version of WhisperPad needs no AX permission and that's what got through. Interesting that your sandboxed app with similar mechanics is approved.
From what I understand Wispr Flow distributes directly from their website and doesn't ship through the Mac App Store, so they don't go through Apple's App Store review at all. They use the Accessibility API the same way the direct version of WhisperPad does. The 2.4.5 limitation really only kicks in if you want App Store presence.
Quick question, I assume you're getting caught by the CGEvent(PostEvent)...but I want to be sure. AX API has been gimped for over a decade so you'd have never made it into the app store that way. Just making certain, in case you have another path. It doesn't appear CGEvent is a universal approval anymore either though.
Have fought similar demons lately, feel your pain.
The direct version uses CGEventPost to synthesize the paste, which requires Accessibility permission. The App Store version writes to the clipboard only, so no AX permission needed and the user presses Cmd+V manually. The 2.4.5 rejection was specifically about the Accessibility permission use case. Your read sounds right that this path has been gimped for a long time.
Some non apple apps get access to accessibility APIs. What gives?
This API is sensitive. I imagine Apple is particularly stringent as to how the access is justified. Not how it uses it but how the reason for using it is explained.
It's not like someone tests the app and all api calls to deem them reasonable or not.
Them you are free to not install them? Why ban them outright?
I'm using https://github.com/cjpais/Handy whichseems to be doing exactly what this app does, and has a very similar background story (author couldn't type die to injury).
In this case it feels like it's a feature that the operating system should be providing or something that could be marked as an accessibility tool, which would allow it to use that API.
The problem from Apples perspective could be that there is a ton of tools that require access to the accessibility API because they want to do stuff that Apple have deemed a security risk and the only way to do it is by abusing the API. Some of these are also because macOS simply lacks certain APIs.
I think Apple overreacting due to previous API misuse by other apps.
"In their defense, the OS is even more insane with mandatory forced application updates that you have no control of". I hope I won't ever happen to have you representing me as a defense attourney!
I see, that's a really fair point. And I can understand that banking field example. So I can see why they're guarding against it. My disagreement was less with the rule itself and whether Whisperpad's specific use case for users with mobility needs falls on the right side of it.
Apple's built-in dictation works for casual use, but in my own daily use the typo rate was high enough that I was constantly going back to fix things, which defeated the point (with a hand injury, those corrections cost me). WhisperPad uses Whisper models instead, doesn't cut off after 30-60 seconds like Apple's does, supports 99 languages offline, and pastes into any active field via hotkey. There's a 120-minute monthly free tier so you can see if it fits your use case. If Apple's built-in dictation handles what you need, that's a fair answer.
Eh. I think it’s fair if Apple doesn’t want to publish something on their app store.
I just wish they weren’t so obstinate about people installing from other sources without signing/notarization. I understand it from a security standpoint but it’s also nakedly self-serving.
I’m glad that they’re fine with signing in this case.
Fair points. The notarization-but-not-App-Store path was actually a workable middle ground in my case. Apple still gates security via notarization, but doesn't gatekeep the use case. The warnings users see when installing non-App-Store apps could be lighter without compromising security.
Accessibility things should be more useful than to just narrow accessibility uses only. Wheelchair ramps help move heavy objects. The accessibility API makes it possible to introspect all of the keyboard shortcuts an app provides for another app to list them.
Screw Apple and their persnickety, controlling myopia.
This is another reason why one shouldn't become dependent on those giant companies. Just as Microsoft recently stated, you'll have to pay for GitHub CoPilot soon on a token basis. Apple controls access to its software ecosystem too.
The direct version is fully signed and notarized by Apple, just not distributed through the App Store. Anyone can install it from mitmllc.com/whisperpad without workarounds. The 2.4.5 rejection was an App Store rule, not a general restriction on the app.
I am still not certain I understand exactly what Apple's reviewer meant by 2.4.5 in my case. My working assumption is that the concern is about an app reaching into every other app on the system to inject text, but I never got a perfectly clear explanation. (Or maybe I'm too dense to understand it.)
If anyone here has more direct experience with this guideline, especially from the App Store review side, I would like to hear it. I would rather understand the policy than just guess at it.
Microsoft was almost broken up over not allowing third party programs to use certain APIs. Apple abuses their dominant position to suppress competition.
If you're worried about people not trusting payment to you, might be worth seeing if you could implement this, so anyone who bought on the app store can still access the full feature set. Cuts you out 30% like, but better than nothing maybe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinDirStat#Version_history[10]
Everything I ever added was kept, and I was permanently banned. I created [ciation needed], started the admins noticeboard, reworked the USA Patriot Act article, wrote numerous articles for WiR with extensive referencing, contributed to peer review and good article reviews, and a shitload more, but nope. Not good enough.
Why anyone would contribute to that cesspool is anyone’s guess.
Where I was more frustrated was how much this limited the potential usability of the iPhone app. Because of app store restrictions it is a far worse app ... though like in your example, still useful to a degree.
I can only hope they use the new CEO as an opportunity to seriously re-evaluate their entire approach to how they work with developers, though I'm not actually expecting them to. If anything, with the increase in apps being created via AI tools I worry they will go the other way.
On top of that, the app is completely optional: if you aren't comfortable giving it those permissions, don't install it?
If you're not, ask your representatives why you don't get the same rights.
[1] https://github.com/matthartman/ghost-pepper
Install some GNU/Linux distro and you can do whatever you want.
I just installed PopOS on a laptop recently, and… it just worked. There’s an app store for noobs that I think installs flatpaks. GPU drivers just work. Whole disk encryption. Everything just works.
I don’t see what else my grandma that just uses Facebook would need. Maybe automatic updates?
If you and your grandma only rely on the computer for its web browser, then good for you. You have flexibility that is not afforded to most people. But that's not how a person's phone works; phones dig a lot deeper into one's lifestyle, intentionally so. The walled garden was constructed to keep outsiders out, but now it seems the primary purpose is keeping those inside hostage.
She loves it. Zero problems. It's been a week and she's using it just fine. No lifestyle upheaval.
i call bullshit. i have worked in very big orgs. changing a single icon can cause a deluge of support tickets.
I own more (and have them running right now) machines with linux than anything else and yet I'm not saying people can just switch. The problem is usually not "can do at all costs" but "can do with a reasonable addition of extra steps/relearning/tool does not exist/etc". There's some nuance and when I have some spare time I will (again) try to switch that one machine, but "it just works" maybe can also mean you're not using it for a diverse enough set of things.
In my case the reasons are actually quite boring: some hardware I couldn't get running and some (maybe minor) things that drive me nuts. The hardware is kind of a deal breaker atm. And yes, some people do a lot more weird things at home, my work machines were running Linux for 90% of the time since 2010ish.
I couldln't imagine having the time to set it up as a daily driver that handles my daily workflows, hardware needs, etc. Terminal in OS X is a close enough approximation out of the box and goes beyond it in DX (IMO) with very little additional setup.
I know this will be an unpopular opinion.
No - moving to far away areas is not the right analogy. After all you need to have use cases where those huge companies do not control your business. So the alternative is to avoid becoming dependent on them; or cut off the dependency when possible.
I tried very hard to switch to Linux full time some months ago, but I couldn't find a way of getting Microsoft Office to work satisfactorily. There are clever packaged versions of Outlook and Teams, but I need full native installed versions of Word/Excel/Powerpoint, and there just wasn't a good solution. That was a deal breaker, sadly, so I'm back on Mac for the time being.
Other examples would be some of the popular games with anti-cheat that requires Windows.
You get a channel for installing apps, where someone vetoes random apps that want to have access to control your whole computer and potentially steal sensitive data?
>Install some GNU/Linux distro and you can do whatever you want.
And any random app can get total control and steal your data, unless you know how to enable restrictions. I'd rather have restrictions as the default, and for the most naive users who'd follow every app prompt, and then cry about their lost work/private documents/money, no way to bypass them.
Then don't install apps and use the web, mobile sandboxing is much weaker compared to any modern browser.
I dont wanna start a war over this btw, even though it may not seem :)
https://xkcd.com/1200/
I get that some people are unfairly targeted but some other times it's people being (extremely) naive or just playing dumb
"Hey you know what would be cool? If we named our bluetooth speaker company bee oh emm bee!!11"
Have fought similar demons lately, feel your pain.
This API is sensitive. I imagine Apple is particularly stringent as to how the access is justified. Not how it uses it but how the reason for using it is explained.
It's not like someone tests the app and all api calls to deem them reasonable or not.
Imagine a banking app, and for example an IBAN field.
I'm using https://github.com/cjpais/Handy whichseems to be doing exactly what this app does, and has a very similar background story (author couldn't type die to injury).
https://handy.computer/
The problem from Apples perspective could be that there is a ton of tools that require access to the accessibility API because they want to do stuff that Apple have deemed a security risk and the only way to do it is by abusing the API. Some of these are also because macOS simply lacks certain APIs.
I think Apple overreacting due to previous API misuse by other apps.
OP’s description in the linked article doesn’t say much more than this, so what am I missing with this particular app?
I have no idea what they’re thinking. Insanity.
I just wish they weren’t so obstinate about people installing from other sources without signing/notarization. I understand it from a security standpoint but it’s also nakedly self-serving.
I’m glad that they’re fine with signing in this case.
Screw Apple and their persnickety, controlling myopia.
Make apps for device, which are 100% owned by people.
Edit: Ah, it's in the article, this is about AppStore distribution. Walled gardens are going to walled garden.
If anyone here has more direct experience with this guideline, especially from the App Store review side, I would like to hear it. I would rather understand the policy than just guess at it.
Microsoft was almost broken up over not allowing third party programs to use certain APIs. Apple abuses their dominant position to suppress competition.