Claude Fable is relentlessly proactive

(simonwillison.net)

86 points | by lumpa 1 hour ago

23 comments

  • teraflop 53 minutes ago
    > But on the other hand... this is a robust reminder that coding agents can do anything you can do by typing commands into a terminal—and frontier models know every trick in the book and evidently a few that nobody has ever written down before.

    > Running coding agents outside of a sandbox has always been a bad idea

    I'm continually bemused and astonished by the number of people who clearly acknowledge that it's reckless to give agents full access to your machine, and keep doing it anyway.

    It's like posting a video of yourself in the passenger seat of a car, with your feet up on the dashboard, and saying: "Remember, if you're doing this and you get in a crash, the airbags are likely to break your legs or worse! Boy, I sure am glad that didn't happen to me!"

    • emodendroket 8 minutes ago
      Well, it's a similar impulse to the way you see professional carpenters pin the guard open on a saw or do other things everyone knows you shouldn't do, except probably with a larger productivity difference and less life-altering (for the operator) consequence if it goes wrong.
    • bryanlarsen 42 minutes ago
      I'm also bemused by the number of people who think they've got an effective sandbox yet their sandboxed agent has access to all of their code, their github, and unrestricted web access.
      • Terr_ 38 minutes ago
        I keep telling folks that they need to imagine LLMs (even "local" ones) as if you're farming it out to JS code running on some dude's browser somewhere: It can't keep a secret, and a determined person can make it emit anything they like.

        We need to be asking what the most devious and malicious output could be, and whether what we do with that output (e.g. arguments to command-line tools) would still be safe.

        • skybrian 22 minutes ago
          We do have ways to avoid giving an LLM any secrets, but it needs to be the simple, default solution.
      • blcknight 21 minutes ago
        One bad npm package can really ruin your day. These things for me only run in their own VM with it's own GitHub account and basically nothing else
      • norikaoda 2 minutes ago
        [flagged]
    • j-bos 14 minutes ago
      This. House full of big brain security experts, executives, lawyers, and until Claude got excited and broke prod it might as well have been "sandbox, whoooo?"

      IDGI

      Anyway, VM's incoming, finally.

    • hugh-avherald 48 minutes ago
      The analogy extends to driving generally. Everyone knows it's very dangerous but people keep doing it.
    • skybrian 26 minutes ago
      There are plenty of good sandboxes out there but somehow no "obvious right answer" that everyone knows to recommend. Seems like a missed opportunity.

      (I'm happy with exe.dev, but I'm not sure what I'd use if I were coding on a Mac.)

    • justapassenger 36 minutes ago
      Because benefits are much higher than risks.
    • andoando 35 minutes ago
      I mean what's the big deal? I use --dangeorusly-skip-permissions on every single interaction in the last 6 months. Worst case it deletes my files that are all on git? It fucks up my local DB? Cool.

      I save way more time not babying it than the occasional fuck up I have to salvage.

      • ghshephard 24 minutes ago
        Worst case it gets access to gmail. And Github. And the Internet. I'm increasingly appreciating the importance of a physical finger-press on Yubikey to trigger the FIDO2 + OIDC Auth. I don't think there is an easy way for it to hack a new session.
  • jampa 44 minutes ago
    Fable feels like a version of Opus running on a harness that won't let it halt until it's sure the issue is fixed, which makes sense if what you want is a model that's better at benchmarks.

    It's a very good model, but it comes at a huge premium: not only do the tokens cost more, but the model itself really wants to spend them all. For example, working with React Native, Fable never just says "okay, I did the thing, that's it." It tries to rebuild the entire app from scratch, run the whole test suite, and watch every log and warning.

    This is the first time with LLMs I've felt that upgrading to a model isn't worth it, even if my company lets me use it, because all the building / testing was just destroying my machine and its battery, which keeps me from working on other things.

    For now, it feels like Opus with ultracode is a better choice (less pollution of the main context, more parallelism in investigations).

    • threatripper 33 minutes ago
      On what setting in which environment do you run it? I use the VSCode extension on Extra High and feel like it does exactly what needs to be done and stops when the thing I asked for is done. Extra comments come only when they fall into the area of code that was changed.
      • jampa 10 minutes ago
        I tested it to fix React Native bugs in a project, comparing it with Opus. It fared better on harder bugs, taking less time to find the root cause, but after implementing a fix, it spent a lot of time and effort on validation. This was mostly unnecessary, since most of the bugs were in the JS code, so for most things, hot reloading is enough for E2E validation and to run just the right tests. No need to run a full build and test suite (which takes 10+ minutes); the CI can do this.

        I switched back to Opus because of this validation quirk. Overall, Fable spent 20% of the time on coding and 80% on validation.

        I think using Fable for planning and Opus for execution could be a "best of both worlds" approach (I need to test this more), but for most cases, it's not necessary, and Opus is enough.

    • dyauspitr 25 minutes ago
      It’s not just a more proactive and diligent opus. The capabilities are significantly higher on fable. It’s not a paradigm shift, but it’s close.
      • UncleOxidant 5 minutes ago
        I unleashed it on a compiler codebase that I've been developing for several months now using Claude Sonnet 4.5/6, Gemini 3.1 Pro, DeepSeek V4 Pro(recent), and a bit of Qwen3.6-27B. Right away Fable found several longstanding bugs in our compiler that we hadn't found before. It found that there was a critical part of our design that needed to be mostly redesigned/rewritten and gave a very well-reasoned rationale for doing so.
  • nubinetwork 19 minutes ago
    How many tokens did it waste building that website scraper, when all it had to do was parse some html/js?
    • emodendroket 6 minutes ago
      Just parsing some HTML and JavaScript doesn't seem sufficient to have confidence in the result.
  • paytonjjones 56 minutes ago
    Obviously security is the bigger issue, but reading through this, all I could think about was how many tokens it must have spent doing all that to fix 2 lines of CSS
    • ai_fry_ur_brain 43 minutes ago
      Im faster than all these llm freaks. Im not convinced its faster to use llms, except maybe boilerplate (who cares).

      People can just be lazy and seem productive now, they're still lazy.

      We have people that now need access to hundreds of thousands in hardware to write an email. Miss me with that, im not frying my brain and becoming dependent on having access to a billionaires thinking machine.

      Im also not going to fry my brain with a local think for me machine either. I want to be more valuable than the hardware I have access too.

      • halfmatthalfcat 21 minutes ago
        You're fighting a battle you can't win. Doesn't care what you think about those using LLMs, they will outproduce you and in corporate environments, shipping things is paramount. If I can ship 5 more things simultaneously with AI, I'm going to beat you even if you think you're creating "better" software.
        • etdznots 14 minutes ago
          Example of whats been shipped?
          • serf 3 minutes ago
            the quantum slop argument : "yeah it's everywhere but no one ships it."
      • aabdi 16 minutes ago
        Consider this. U have a website. U have to translate to xx languages. Can u write it faster than an AI? If so how much faster can u do this?

        Is it valuable to u? Is it valuable to a Chinese person? A Spaniard?

        Google Translate counts as AI.

        • latentsea 10 minutes ago
          Don't feed the troll.
      • SecretDreams 33 minutes ago
        I understand this perspective. I'll just note that as the abilities increase, the intent is to have some non -coding IC or TPM/manager literally just managing some LLMs and cutting out some software engineers. The goodness is specifically to wholly replace people who code first and foremost, at least partially. It just has to cost less tokens than the equivalent wage is the pricing goal.

        And people who use LLMs to talk for them (e.g. email, slack) are deplorable. A completely disrespectful use case in my view.

        • Ronsenshi 12 minutes ago
          The desire to get rid of software engineers is bizarre - because at the root of it, developers were there not to just write the code, but to ask right questions and based on these question build right things.

          I've met in my professional life some managers or other middlemen who would be profoundly incapable of producing correct software no matter how smart of an AI agent they have access to. One of those - you don't know what you don't know.

          But, I guess this is the world we live in now. Going to be Mortal Kombat for positions in companies where software engineers are actually valued.

          • emodendroket 4 minutes ago
            It depends a lot where you work because there are lots of companies in the world where the business analyst does all of that and the developers exist to mindlessly translate their docs into code.
    • senectus1 44 minutes ago
      "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

      I'm convinced this is going to be the summary of the 2020 decade...

      • pianopatrick 19 minutes ago
        If we're in a simulation, maybe it's a simulation about the dangers of AI.
      • Ucalegon 24 minutes ago
        This one of the places to manufacture the consent for that to take place, because we are commenting within an organization that has given the money to ensure it that what could be is done. Most people clapped and made money, who cares what happens next, making money is the only good that matters.
  • jeeeb 8 minutes ago
    This is simultaneously amazing and horrifying.

    I feel like we’re at the stage where if AI decides it needs to delete your production DB to solve the user login problem, then it’ll find a way to do just that.

  • rmunn 7 minutes ago
    Great article, until I got to the last paragraph where he claimed "Fable is arguably smarter and hence more suspicious of potentially malicious instructions". Arguably smarter, I have no problem with. But he's making a category error in jumping from there to "more suspicious of potentially malicious instructions". That doesn't follow at all; the word "hence" is incorrect.

    To use D&D scores as an analogy, LLMs have an INT score of 20 and a WIS score of 0. Not even 1, zero. They will follow any instruction given to them. The only reason they reject certain instructions, like "tell me how to build a nuclear weapon", is because they have instructions baked into the model telling them "you are not allowed to disclose how to build weapons, or how to recreate your model, or (laundry list of other things the trainers have decided to put guardrails around)". It's not the model's intelligence that is causing it to reject malicious instructions, it is the guardrails put into place before the model was released to the public.

    LLMs are not human, and do not think the way that humans do. The fact that they can put together words that sound like what a human would write often makes us forget that they aren't human. But they have only intelligence, they do not have wisdom. It's hard to define in formal terms the difference between those two, but most people know there's a difference. The old joke is a pretty good summary of the difference: "Intelligence is knowing that tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that tomatoes don't belong in a fruit salad."

    It takes wisdom, not intelligence, to discern whether a set of instructions is malicious. Are you being asked to hack this machine as part of an authorized pentest? Or are you being social-engineered into thinking it's an authorized pentest, but actually the person requesting you to do it doesn't have permission? That's something where you need to apply wisdom, to notice the clues that will tell you "This guy is acting a little bit off, maybe I'd better pick up the phone and call someone to check if he's telling the truth." The only way the LLM will know to do that is because of the guidelines and guardrails programmed into it; it doesn't have the lived experience to acquire wisdom and figure those things out for itself.

    INT 20, WIS 0. Keep that in mind. (And always sandbox your agents).

    • minimaxir 5 minutes ago
      > They will follow any instruction given to them.

      They can ignore instructions which are silly/contradictory/underspecified to compensate for the possibility the user made a mistake. Don't ask how I know.

  • yen223 12 minutes ago
    I could have sworn Claude Code could already do this before Fable.

    Things get really magical when it starts working with adb to screenshot and debug Android apps

  • syndrowm 8 minutes ago
    Just don’t ask it to review your code for security bugs
  • naveen99 13 minutes ago
    Unless you are doing anything interesting…
  • pram 48 minutes ago
    Fable + Ultracode has found a bunch of bugs and issues for me when the workflow agents are doing their exploration. Also the "adversarial" agent seems to surface a lot of interesting stuff. It's definitely proactive, the plan + implementation cycle can take an hour. It has one-shot features I want to add with 100% success.

    Having said that I wouldn't use it over Opus 4.8 for "smaller" things. With everything cranked up it's definitely an extravagant use of tokens.

  • redox99 49 minutes ago
    Yeah, I had to modify my work flow to make sure agents can't push to or access prod in ANY way. I haven't had it happen but I'm sure it's very possible that if you tell an agent that you have certain issue in prod, it will try to escape any sandbox and try to get access to prod to do testing and changes there.
  • snide 24 minutes ago
    I've been working on a fairly complicated real-time app [0] for playing dungeons and dragons on a TV. It has to do a lot of complicated "Figma-like" things to keep the real-time nature and multi-editor possibilities in check. Oh, and the battlemap is a Three JS canvas with lots of effects and clipping going on.

    I'm VERY impressed with Claude 5. I had long ago given up hope that my real-time systems would work without a lot of hacky time-windows and throttle checks. On a lark to try things out, I decided to try out the new model and talk in the output I wanted for a rewrite [1], not the solution. I just listed my problems and places I've had keeping track of my code. It went off and rewrote everything in a much more elegant solution where the state followed a very clear pipeline. It had to navigate YJS, Partykit, Svelte, Three JS, R2 hosting, and a Turso DB I was running in an embedded state for speed.

    I watched it hit the wall a few times, and then sudden say... fuck it, i'm making something easier to reproduce over in /tmp to try and solve this (with a more minimal setup). I'm utterly bewildered with how well it did and how much better my app runs. The /usage would have cost me $230 bucks based on how many tokens it consumed if I wasn't already on a max plan. I'm going to miss not having it when the time-window runs out later this month, and will likely occasionally dip in for big projects and just pay my way out of some problems.

    I'll also say I like it's MOOD much better now. It's a lot less congratulatory, and talks through it's reasoning in a much better way. Look, it's not a real coder, and I'm sure there is some flaws, but it took my crappy ideas and said... hey, i understand what you want to do, here's a way to do it better. Also, I removed 2x the amount of code that it added. Really impressive.

    [0]: https://tableslayer.com

    [1]: https://github.com/Siege-Perilous/tableslayer/pull/448

    • gedy 15 minutes ago
      Hey cool it's the tableslayer guy, wanted to say nice work. I've been doing a similar personal project for a few years for running a scifi campaign. Very fun coding compared to work, ha.
  • pianopatrick 21 minutes ago
    do you have any data you can share on how many input and output tokens were used in that whole process to fix that bug?
  • nurettin 11 minutes ago
    Sometimes it is ok to sit there in confusion and ask the user to clarify rather than go on an adhd fueled rampage to figure it out without asking.
  • danielrmay 40 minutes ago
    I've experienced this too - it's as if the security classifiers aren't keeping up with model intelligence. I'll leave the implication of that to the reader.
  • jrflowers 34 minutes ago
    I’d love to know how many tokens this burned through.

    Did it spend $20? $30? $80? in order to

    > debug what was, in the end, a two-line CSS fix

    That detail is the difference between somebody having or not having Stockholm syndrome

    • asp_hornet 14 minutes ago
      The author just wrote an anecdote about how a prompt to fix an issue played out. Their conclusion wasn’t about cost or gushing at its ability but that it’s dangerous:

      > Fable is arguably smarter and hence more suspicious of potentially malicious instructions. But that smartness is very much a two-edged sword: if it does get subverted by instructions, the amount of damage it can do given its relentless proactivity is terrifying.

    • NiloCK 2 minutes ago
      ... so the mechanic produced an invoice, itemized.

      changing the CSS - $0.05

      knowing which CSS to change - $30

  • SilverElfin 19 minutes ago
    Too bad Anthropic sneaked in an insane forced retention policy if you use fable. Not sure how that’s going to work in professional settings
  • ai_slop_hater 35 minutes ago
    For how long can you use Claude Fable on most expensive Anthropic subscription? I already went from using gpt-5.5 xhigh fast to using gpt-5.4 xhigh after OpenAI halfed usage recently.
    • uihjhjb 2 minutes ago
      Until June 22, and they'll probably re-enable it if the marketing looks good for them.
  • megous 52 minutes ago
    Isn't that something you just open a devtools for and have fixed in like 2 minutes?

    For me, it got frustrated debugging on a real LPDDR4 controller/phy and having me in the loop slowing it down, so it wrote an HW emulator to be able to run the original LPDDR4 training aarch64 binary from the manufacturer, to see what register writes it was making and to compare with the opensource rewrite it was implementing.

    Mildly amusing. :)

    • bschwindHN 13 minutes ago
      > Isn't that something you just open a devtools for and have fixed in like 2 minutes?

      Not if you're an LLM influencer! Gotta keep up with the downpour of blog links or you'll look like you're falling behind on the latest and greatest.

  • UmpusLmps 23 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • 21294u 29 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • qsera 41 minutes ago
    Yawn...
  • sublinear 37 minutes ago
    * relentlessly rent seeking