Teaching Kids Forth

(gracefulliberty.com)

71 points | by rbanffy 7 hours ago

12 comments

  • lebuffon 2 hours ago
    I used Forth to explain numbers in different radices to my grandson. Being able to interactively try things at the console was really helpful. It also helps to separate the internal number in the machine from how we display it, due to the different operators to print numbers as signed or unsigned. This is something that I have seen young programmers confuse.

    I think another area where Forth can help young people is in understanding some low level details like memory addresses and reading and writing memory. It seems simpler than abstracting it to "pointers", more like assembler but interactive.

  • jeberle 5 hours ago
    Leo Brodie's "Starting Forth: An Introduction to the Forth Language and Operating System for Beginners and Professionals" is well-suited for any level student. It's quite fun and made a mark on my thinking. It's hard for a postfix dereference operator not to.
  • veltas 7 hours ago
    I really love Forth and spend almost all my free programming time playing with it and I'd never teach it to a class of kids.
    • ndiddy 3 hours ago
      Yeah Forth doesn't seem very good as a teaching language. Maybe the "first lesson" part where you're just showing how you can build a toy program from simple words would go well, but any nontrivial project where you have to start incorporating DUP and OVER and ROT and PICK and friends seems like a nightmare to teach to anyone who hasn't programmed before.
    • noosphr 3 hours ago
      Kids need an antidote to the brain damage that is standard mathematical notation. I prefer lisps variadic prefix notation, but if you're just doing fixed arity functions without higher order functions than prefix and post fix are as good as each other, and you don't have the dreaded sea of parenthesis.
      • pitchlatte 41 minutes ago
        what aspect of school level “mathematical notation” is so bad as to be brain damage inducing?
    • rbanffy 7 hours ago
      My kid was curious about my HP-35 and I taught them how it works. They got it in no time and I made it an exercise to rewrite math expressions in RPN.

      Not sure they are that interested in programming, but FORTH is a little sweet language.

      My first experience with it was Paul Lutus’ GraFORTH. On the Apple II it was ridiculously fast.

      • JSR_FDED 5 hours ago
        Well that’s next weekend sorted, thanks!
      • fuzztester 2 hours ago
        lutus also created arachnophilia and sailed or is sailing around the world.

        n coined the term careware. iirc.

        first-hand info. i had downloaded n used arachnophilia.

        he is on hn.

    • songhonglei1985 3 hours ago
      [flagged]
  • bolangi 3 hours ago
    Decker, a hypercard style app, seems to give quick gratification. Looks like an easy and fun way to get started with programming. Was just posted to HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49060856
  • sieste 13 minutes ago
    > I wanted to avoid teaching syntax. While Python makes sense as pseudocode [...] it is still nearly incomprehensible to new learners [...] I decided I wanted to either teach Forth or Haskell.

    Sorry but this reads like a joke. If you find python incomprehensible, Forth and Haskell won't even register as languages.

  • sudb 5 hours ago
    I doubly enjoyed reading this because I feel like I'm reasonably sure the author never ran this through an LLM because of the "cirriculum" typo.
    • encomiast 4 hours ago
      Because it occurred more than once, my first thought was it must be a British variant. But I guess not.
      • WillAdams 3 hours ago
        The u and i keys are adjacent, so it's a plausible typo.
  • cameldrv 6 hours ago
    Writing RPL on my HP48 as a young teenager influenced the way I thought about programming significantly. RPL IMO is underrated as an educational tool. It introduces the stack based concept, but also the "everything is an object" concept. As a useful language I'm not sure, but it was definitely fun to think about.
  • q2dg 6 hours ago
    Why not Processing or P5.js?
    • peesem 5 hours ago
      did you read the post? it doesn't mention those by name but the reasons it gives for not teaching other languages/tools apply to those too
  • AI_hacker 7 hours ago
    [dead]
  • hecreto 7 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • beyonddream 7 hours ago
      Why ?
      • Loughla 6 hours ago
        I'm betting the mask and pronouns. Because no one can do anything anymore, even if that thing has zero impact on anyone else, without having their mental fitness attacked.
  • pbgcp2026 3 hours ago
    All things considered, unfortunately, we are better off teaching them plumbing or painting ...
    • assimpleaspossi 3 hours ago
      Or just concentrate on reading writing and 'rithmetic and let them find a career they want that isn't forced on them