I been using MiMo-V2.5 to do most of my work as software engineer, on a variety of projects I'm working on, and I been VERY happy with ROI. The model is very powerful! Not perfect – I've run in hallucination loops once or twice, but nothing a stop-then-continue wouldn't solve.
The cost is unbelievably low, and the quality of intelligence I get is equivalent to when I was working mostly with Anthropic models (late last year/early this year). I'm fully invested in MiMo and I'm very happy with it.
--
PS: I also check almost daily to see if other models are capable of doing such great work. And they do – DS4F is powerful and DS41 is impressive, GLM 5.3 Flash gets a job done well, etc. – but when I add cost of M-token in the ROI math, Jeez! MiMo is an order of magnitude better.
That's an eternity when it comes to coding models.
In my personal experience, we've had almost a step change every ~3 months this year, at least for bigger one-shot tasks. For example looking at Gemini Flash 3.0 vs 3.5 vs 3.8, it went 5% -> 30% -> 75% on DeepSWE, all since the start of the year.
In another one, Opus 4.6 level already solved 90% of my work-day tasks, so while better models have been instrumental into handling a higher % that does not mean that defaulting on cheaper models can't be good.
I run DS 4.1 flash daily, and then cross check with gpt-6-astra and I've nuked 90% of my AI monthly bill while having higher limits and better performance/intelligence than I did just at the beginning of this summer.
Same here. It’s the first AI provider I actually gave money to, since they offered the model for free with a Mimo code for the first month or so, and it was great.
These days, there are more intelligent models like DS4.1, but Mimo is very obedient, so I plan things with another model and give the implementation to Mimo.
I've found that mimo v2.5 works for very basic things like a python script to do one thing, but it also is very 'dumb' compared to qwen 3.8-flash-next (I think the benchmark scores for terminal and coding specific benches back this up). And definitely not in the same class as like a GLM5.2 or 5.3. It's fast but makes basic mistakes that only get caught later.
The fact I can run Qwen 3.8 Flash Next locally, forever (on my DGX Spark-alike) is genuinely shocking to me. It’s crazy good for how small it is. Fast, too.
Yeah, I'm guessing you have a variant that fits in <128GB with 262k context? I have the unsloth Q8 GGUF of it here in a setup that with full context and ton of extra llama-server "--cache-ram" sits around 200GB RAM usage on a 256GB system, it's probably the best thing I've found for a 256GB class machine. Enough headroom for a rope/yarn extension to 524288 context if I need it.
For comparison, I am currently at 6.6B tokens, 95% of monthly quota on a 10$ command code plan, mostly using DeepSeek flash 4.1, or some of the free models for easier tasks.
They both are in the 50-100 tok/s range. The Mimo v2.5 Pro Ultraspeed beta could reach 1000 tok/s, hoping they can do something similar for the new model, it was amazing.
mimo 2.5 has been a big underperformer since shortly after it's release imo. i cancelled my sub after the first month. purposefully using 2.5 right now is just handicapping yourself for no reason.
Yeah, this Brazilian dude who has been a contributor here on HN longer than your anonymous account is shilling for a Chinese model company. Makes sense.
For my own usage, Luna is cheap enough that I don't care if other models are cheaper. I'm interested if another model is in some way better and not too expensive.
Luna is great but makes a lot of mistakes at high and lower in my experience (large rust codebase). I use Luna Max for asynchronous subagent reviews and am very happy with its work, but it’s slow af.
Neat! I've been trying out their next model for the last week, which I assume is a version of this, and it's been a good experience so far.
I had used 2.5-pro for a hefty chunk of development, and found it to work like a somewhat forgetful senior engineer who was new to my project. Very capable, would almost always choose a reasonable option, if not always the best one for the project, and not great at multi-tasking. Generally, made me comfortable not scrutinizing the code line-by-line, but still needed a bit of steering once projects got to a reasonable size.
The next model is a clear step up in the multi-tasking capability at least, with me very rarely having to steer the implementation of a well-defined issue. In terms of code, I found MiMo-V.2.5-pro to be extremely conservative, implementing minimal solutions. The next model seems a little bit more ambitious, in positive ways, making good guesses about gaps/next steps. It also seems to be a fair bit better at design, at least for the little bit I've done, it was good at translating my concepts to practical elements on screen, and cleaned things up nicely as I made suggestions.
DeepSWE is saturated now IMO, and is basically worthless. Lots of new models get around 74%. Shame too, because it was a pretty decent benchmark for a few months there.
> and google just started letting all their engineers use claude
That's misleading.
1. Having different models available is useful for A/B testing and helping improve Gemini itself.
2. They have an enterprise offering for Antigravity (their agentic coding platform), and they need to test that it works well with non-Gemini models too.
Speculating here, but I assume researchers can make a reasonable estimate of the size of closed models based on factors like training time, training speed, and the number of tokens processed.
Also, Anthropic and OpenAI probably want to keep each other on their toes so they don’t end up on the wrong side of another Opus 4.6 / GPT-5.3-Codex situation, where one lab releases a model only for the other to drop a better one hours later.
I think first of all it’s not an obvious idea, also the marketing surplus for other providers is not as big for openai/anthropic as for xiaomi and last but not least I’m pretty sure you can withdraw methodology from here.
I’m saying who has a million dollars for me, so I can make my own model?
Kinda yes. The benchmarks become part of the validation set, which means the models get slightly overfit to them if they are used as criteria for stopping the training. But a lot less compared to using them in the training data.
I'd guess everybody uses at least some benchmarks as stopping criteria, which is kinda sensible, but it also does induce some benchmaxxing, and explains partly why the newest models always tend to eke out in benchmarks.
Correct. If just stopping criteria, that is less contaminated. The question gets muddier once you also use it to determine hyperparameters during small-scale runs.
They are using it to evaluate checkpoints during the training, they are probably not using the benchmarks for training the models. It's a common practice for big reinforcement learning runs.
They exist to detect degradation. Datasets are not perfect and if a batch contains too much bad data it can ruin a run, also an opportunity to find bad data and improve the dataset filtering.
You gotta have something to aim at. And, presumably, the benchmark is not part of the training data, it is the test against which the model is tested at each stage; is behavior moving in the right direction?
This is crazy, but sadly anthropic/openai will never do this, what has happened to this world, where chinese companies are more open than US or even EU companies
Total run cost is $1.2M until now, what resources are they using to train their model? Wish they shared more details on that and what the MFU metrics are.
I absolutely love that someone is doing this! Why isn’t IBM for Granite or Google for Gemini?
If you are going to develop a near frontier model, and you don’t think you have special sauce up your sleeve, why not making training runs and RL environment scores etc. visible to the world?
I’m genuinely learning quite a bit just from the dashboard
"Stealing millennium problems" would be more complete if not accurate description. And that 99.99% of the market is not interested in solving millennium problems is the other fact.
Haha yeah pretty wild how easily you can see the data is fake by the repeating numbers (refresh the page the progress goes back in time constantly) + watch for restarts. They say they happen but 0 data correlates the log messages. Just a replay of old data or being fed by an llm so they convince people they are open
With other software, devs convince their managers of the importance of using open source stuff in their stack. With AI, it's usually managers choosing what models to use for the devs. The US labs don't need to give a damn how much devs like open source
This isn't about liking open source. This is about the labs just being cool and doing cool shit instead of the opposite which is Anthropic where all they talking about is killing everyone and taking everyone's job.
> The US labs don't need to give a damn how much devs like open source
In the short term, true.
In the long term, unknown but typically when you hold progress that way while other countries don't you at best end up becoming siloed while the rest of the world continues on without you.
You mean all of the frontier models that the Chinese distillation clones are copying? Yeah kinda cool imo. If a dashboard showing training for a model that doesn't even come close to anything us labs have released in 6 months is "cool", then you're a loser
Anthropic and OpenAI literally stole from every human in history and youre out here complaining that the Chinese are distilling models and releasing them to the public?
Because without those labs to distill from the pathetic Chinese labs wouldn't have anything. Im not impressed by them copying US labs not sure why you are. But go off ccp bot
A restart of the process does not necessarily mean reverting the model state. I don't know why you would even do that, because you'd lose all the progress you made.
If you're thinking of the UI style, definitely not Claude. It is incapable of writing a clear sentence like "what each step's samples are made of", would have used all-caps for everything, more padding and gradients.
I hope this is /s because it’s very easy to get Claude to write sensibly. That’s why AI slop writing is so annoying because it’s so easy to avoid with any amount of effort at all.
In my experience Opus and Sonnet 5 subtly ignore most instructions related to writing style, and continue to sound the same half of the time. Do you have a successful skill/prompt to share?
They'd be running in the red then cause they charge way less than Claude. Sorry but it just doesn't make logical sense. They have open source, papers, and self hosting too
The cost is unbelievably low, and the quality of intelligence I get is equivalent to when I was working mostly with Anthropic models (late last year/early this year). I'm fully invested in MiMo and I'm very happy with it.
-- PS: I also check almost daily to see if other models are capable of doing such great work. And they do – DS4F is powerful and DS41 is impressive, GLM 5.3 Flash gets a job done well, etc. – but when I add cost of M-token in the ROI math, Jeez! MiMo is an order of magnitude better.
That's an eternity when it comes to coding models.
In my personal experience, we've had almost a step change every ~3 months this year, at least for bigger one-shot tasks. For example looking at Gemini Flash 3.0 vs 3.5 vs 3.8, it went 5% -> 30% -> 75% on DeepSWE, all since the start of the year.
In another one, Opus 4.6 level already solved 90% of my work-day tasks, so while better models have been instrumental into handling a higher % that does not mean that defaulting on cheaper models can't be good.
I run DS 4.1 flash daily, and then cross check with gpt-6-astra and I've nuked 90% of my AI monthly bill while having higher limits and better performance/intelligence than I did just at the beginning of this summer.
Everything after it might be more "intelligent" but is super tuned around end-to-end task (and related benchmarks), not to act as an assistant.
Now it's *you* being the assistant, reviewer, etc.
These days, there are more intelligent models like DS4.1, but Mimo is very obedient, so I plan things with another model and give the implementation to Mimo.
I’ll give Mimo a try.
UltraSpeed was absolutely awesome. I miss it.
DS 4.1 Flash is amazing. Well worth the extra cost.
And I am not a web developer! It's an extraordinary model.
(Mouse and keyboard required)
It’s good enough that I’m considering a second spark, or selling this and buying an M5 Ultra with 256GB for it
I always found that those Mimo models to be really good at tool calling and following instructions
API may be expensive, but I do 900m tokens (95% cached, ~0.4% output) on Z.ai's $18/mo coding plan with GLM 5.3 Flash.
For comparison, I am currently at 6.6B tokens, 95% of monthly quota on a 10$ command code plan, mostly using DeepSeek flash 4.1, or some of the free models for easier tasks.
now we r just noticing the grave getting dug deeper.
Trying to understand why users are using Luna when Sol seems essentially unlimited on the pro plan. Unless you have jobs running 24/7.
https://www.debtdefaultclock.us/
I had used 2.5-pro for a hefty chunk of development, and found it to work like a somewhat forgetful senior engineer who was new to my project. Very capable, would almost always choose a reasonable option, if not always the best one for the project, and not great at multi-tasking. Generally, made me comfortable not scrutinizing the code line-by-line, but still needed a bit of steering once projects got to a reasonable size.
The next model is a clear step up in the multi-tasking capability at least, with me very rarely having to steer the implementation of a well-defined issue. In terms of code, I found MiMo-V.2.5-pro to be extremely conservative, implementing minimal solutions. The next model seems a little bit more ambitious, in positive ways, making good guesses about gaps/next steps. It also seems to be a fair bit better at design, at least for the little bit I've done, it was good at translating my concepts to practical elements on screen, and cleaned things up nicely as I made suggestions.
Fable scores 70%, Kimi K3 69%, Astra 74% (all on max effort).
https://deepswe.datacurve.ai/blog/deepswe-v1-1
Even flash reached 60.7% by step 12, and it's on step 16 now.
This is so exciting lmao.
That's misleading.
1. Having different models available is useful for A/B testing and helping improve Gemini itself.
2. They have an enterprise offering for Antigravity (their agentic coding platform), and they need to test that it works well with non-Gemini models too.
Also, Anthropic and OpenAI probably want to keep each other on their toes so they don’t end up on the wrong side of another Opus 4.6 / GPT-5.3-Codex situation, where one lab releases a model only for the other to drop a better one hours later.
I still opus 4.6 though not for code
I’m saying who has a million dollars for me, so I can make my own model?
I'd guess everybody uses at least some benchmarks as stopping criteria, which is kinda sensible, but it also does induce some benchmaxxing, and explains partly why the newest models always tend to eke out in benchmarks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Training,_validation,_and_test...
It's not the direct feedback loop of RL but its not far.
For some reason I thought training took much, much longer than what the progress bar suggests.
This is really neat, I'm currently using mimo 2.5 pro, and it's decent (or great given the price). Hopefully their next one is multimodal.
If you are going to develop a near frontier model, and you don’t think you have special sauce up your sleeve, why not making training runs and RL environment scores etc. visible to the world?
I’m genuinely learning quite a bit just from the dashboard
Keeping the garage door open, or at least making the door translucent. It's always cool.
Google had this GPT long go and a wise man within Google noted:
"We don't have any maot neither does anyone else."
The AI bubble burst is guaranteed and is only delayed by IPOs.
Open models have not yet caught up with February's Mythos checkpoint.
Meanwhile OpenAI is solving millennium problems, and their compute is still fully utilized.
Where is the cool shit from the US labs?
The US population is much more pessimistic and doomsday driven these days, whereas the Chinese are more optimistic and future driven.
In the short term, true.
In the long term, unknown but typically when you hold progress that way while other countries don't you at best end up becoming siloed while the rest of the world continues on without you.
Anthropic and OpenAI literally stole from every human in history and youre out here complaining that the Chinese are distilling models and releasing them to the public?
Why do you care?
/s