Grim Fandango Puzzle Document (1996) [pdf]

(gameshelf.jmac.org)

336 points | by kelseyfrog 13 hours ago

37 comments

  • fredrikholm 12 hours ago
    I found Grim Fandango in a pile of discounted games as a tween in the 2000s. There was a cool skeleton in a suit on the front cover, so I bought it based on that.

    Even though I didn't understand most references and sarcasm, few games have grabbed my attention as Grim Fandango did. The art work, the music, the writing. The whole game oozes of style that I've never seen replicated.

    Even some 20+ years later I can almost recite most of Act I from heart. If you haven't played this game and like adventure games, this is one of the best.

    Thank you for linking OP, this made my morning.

    • tialaramex 12 hours ago
      I have never played through Grim Fandangoo in full, but in my peer group memes from this game permeated so thoroughly that when I see a pigeon I will too often end up shouting at it, "Run you pigeons! It's Robert Frost".
    • InsideOutSanta 10 hours ago
      I first played it in my 40s when the remaster came out, and it's one of the best games I've played. It holds up incredibly well, particularly with the modernized controls.

      So if anyone is wondering if this is just nostalgia, or if the game actually holds up, it's the latter. Just play it.

    • amiga386 8 hours ago
      When I initially saw the game characters, I thought "this is janky". But by the end of the game, their personalities had won over my heart.

      Tim Schafer is really good at this. Psychonauts has a large cast of deformed-looking characters, but you'll love them all by the end.

      • taeric 4 hours ago
        Absolutely this. The game is a prime example of how characters can drive engagement.
    • Gareth321 12 hours ago
      I played the demo and it's been at the top of my "to play" list for decades. For one reason or another, I just never have yet. Majora's Mask is also at the top.
      • jug 11 hours ago
        There are a few bad puzzles (especially one regarding infernal critters) that one can use a guide for, but mostly it was a blast to finish it back in the day. Such a unique story by itself and then in a rare comedy / noir style on top! It's kind of crazy how they even came up with it.

        I still remember the feeling of the ending, and the end credits music when the violin kicked in as it played the Manny & Meche theme! The music is at least as good as this game.

        • bherms 9 hours ago
          Soundtrack is dope as well
      • sersi 11 hours ago
        Well worth playing the remastered version. It makes the control a bit more bearable but otherwise feels like the original.
      • supersaw 4 hours ago
        It's well worth playing despite the many years passed since its release. I first played it in 2020 (despite knowing of it since its initial release), and had an absolute blast of a time.
      • dbalatero 6 hours ago
        Do it, it's a beautiful work of art.
      • ElCapitanMarkla 9 hours ago
        Majora’s Mask is fantastic
      • jimbob45 11 hours ago
        Not to be a downer about a masterpiece game but…the demo ends right before the game starts proffering anti-logic puzzles.
        • chamomeal 4 hours ago
          The puzzles are so bad. Like how in the world is somebody supposed to think of that stuff. It’s total nonsense lmao. Still love the game, but a walkthrough guide is mandatory. Might even start a new game this weekend
          • the_af 3 hours ago
            Agreed. Grim Fandango is a game that's all about the setting and characters. For that alone it's a masterpiece. But the puzzles... ehh..
    • DanielHB 9 hours ago
      I remember playing it back in the day and I was severely unimpressed. Compared to Full Throttle it just felt clunky and the 3d art wasn't nearly as good as the amazing pixel art. I ended up never finishing it.
      • syllogism 9 hours ago
        It released with unbearable keyboard controls instead of the familiar point-and-click. If I remember right a remaster eventually came out that allowed mouse control.

        I agree that I hated the 3d though. This was a bad patch for games when everyone wanted to go 3d for the sake of it, even though it looked and played worse.

        • DanielHB 7 hours ago
          Yeah the keyboard controls were awful, apparently it was because they wanted the game to have a console port using a gamepad.

          Thing is I bet the people who played it are right too, I just never managed to bring myself to play more than a few hours of the game before getting frustrated. Bad controls + 90s point-and-click-puzzle-design + early 3d graphics is not a good recipe.

          Full Throttle was criticized for its dumbed-down point-and-click (basic only 3 actions + using items, instead of the usual verbs), but that was the sweetspot for my early-teens mind. Can never get enough funny responses of using the lick action.

          • amiga386 6 hours ago
            LucasArts then made the same mistake with Escape From Monkey Island, because they were targetting the PlayStation 2
            • DanielHB 5 hours ago
              It is funny to think that even back then people just didn't put up with bad controls. Like Elder Scrolls Redguard, amazing game for the time but the lousiest controls ever. Megaman Legends also comes to mind.

              They would put up with crazy puzzles, huge grinds, weird RPG numbers systems (AD&D in BG1/2 for example), but if you want to do action A on thing B that can not, under any circumstance feel bad to do.

          • the_af 3 hours ago
            I also remember the criticism of Full Throttle, but it always rang hollow to me: a game is not just the puzzles, and also some people complained about the action sequences, but for me they were welcome (even if too easy). Everything about the game is golden: the setting about bikers (how cool is that?), the 2D pixel animation, the amazing voice acting and the opening by the Gone Jackals. I fell in love with the game back then, and I still like it on replays.
            • DanielHB 52 minutes ago
              The game is amazing, but it is really annoying when you get stuck on a weird timing-based wall-kick game, or robot-bunny minefield, or destruction-derby minigame with unclear instructions.

              Somehow I remember those parts more than the fun parts, maybe because I didn't have access to a guide back then.

              • the_af 22 minutes ago
                Heh, I know what you mean. I enjoyed the action minigames and figuring out what to do, but some people found them frustrating.

                Mostly, what I remember is the outstanding voice acting, and the most memorable intro ever.

                Yeah, whenever I think of Maureen I think of two things: asphalt, and trouble...

      • Razengan 9 hours ago
        You're missing out; give the Remastered/Extended/whatever edition a try
    • oulipo 10 hours ago
      Same for most LucasArt games, Day of the Tentacle, Monkey Islands, and the others
    • hirako2000 11 hours ago
      Unique game. Also to think that they pulled out that beautiful 3D toon feel before toon shaders were made.
    • Razengan 9 hours ago
      Same, it's one of those things that stays with you for life.

      For similar feels, check out Disco Elysium

      Planescape Torment

      and almost anything by Amanita Design

  • polytely 11 hours ago
    Nice, Tim Schafer is someone whose writing I really admire, if you haven't checked it out yet Double Fine (the studio he leads) documented the entire (7 year!) development cycle of Psychonauts 2 in a 32 episode documentary series, and it in my opinion one of the best documentaries ever made. It covers a lot of cool stuff, like Covid, them getting acquired by Microsoft, big project leadership struggles. It's long as hell but it is really worth your time if you have an interest in creative work in large teams.

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIhLvue17Sd70y34zh2erWWpM...

    They are currently doing a company wide gamejam/game idea incubation thing, after surviving Microsoft undoing the acquisition and the same Documentary crew is doing a doc about that (they did a kickstarter campaign to fund it)

  • leokennis 11 hours ago
    The small square box at the very end of the document, with accompanying text, is just delightful:

    > To protect this document, please restrict your fallen tears of joy to this box. Thank you! → [__]

    All over the document, you can see Tim Schafer "wasted his time" by adding personality (jokes, graphics, asides) to what is basically an internal document.

    I think in 2026 a document lovingly crafted like this would be deemed a great waste of time, lack of efficiency and an affront to shareholder value.

    • schlauerfox 2 hours ago
      Fortunately George Lucas only directed them to "Not lose money".
    • quietfox 11 hours ago
      [dead]
  • bmac 5 hours ago
    If you look at the 2nd to last page of the PDF you can see Tim Schafer's deception where he hadn't actually designed the ending puzzle by the time the document was due.

    > We didn’t have the last puzzle designed when I wrote that document, so I wrote two nonsense paragraphs and then overlapped them in the file so it would look like the final puzzle description was in there, but obscured by a print formatting error. That way I could turn the document in by the deadline.

  • ulrikrasmussen 9 hours ago
    I have started playing Grim Fandango with my kids (7 and 9) after we played through Day of the Tentacle together. Playing old adventure games on the TV and letting people take turns playing is a great family activity!

    They aren't native English speakers and the story in Grim Fandango is considerably harder to follow compared to DoTT, so they lost interest a bit after we completed year 1. But as soon as their English skills improve, we'll get back to it, it's one of my favorite adventure games!

    • ashenke 6 hours ago
      Are the remasters not translated? I remember playing Day of the Tentacle, Grim Fandango, and all the other LucasArts games when I was a child, and they were dubbed in French.

      EDIT: I checked, and I was mistaken: DOTT was never dubbed in French, but Grim Fandango (and its remaster) is.

      • ulrikrasmussen 6 hours ago
        Some are, but I'm Danish and I think they translated any of the games to that :)
    • raverbashing 9 hours ago
      I wonder how easy it would be to translate it today with LLMs and have a translated version running on ScummVM
      • ulrikrasmussen 9 hours ago
        Isn't ScummVM 2D only?
        • thetoon 6 hours ago
          Nope, they integrated their sister project, ResidualVM, that does 3d
  • vbernat 12 hours ago
  • momojo 2 hours ago
    This is one of those masterpieces that I'm surprised hasn't been scooped up by Netflix and turned into a movie.

    Its not that I don't like it as a game, but it's just so chock full of character.

    The premise alone is so compelling; in the Land of the Dead, even dead men chase money. Even with the literal afterlife a train ticket away, you have conmen and good guys living (or dying?) like there's no end of the line.

    Love it. One of those rare pieces of art that continues to live in my head rent-free.

  • glimshe 7 hours ago
    I never understood why people like Grim Fandango so much. I know many people who absolutely love it (and some more here on the replies) but I never did.

    I've finished it with a walkthrough so I've seen the entire game. Between an art style that didn't age well and didn't grab me even then, obscure puzzles and a theme that doesn't interest me so much, I think it is one of LucasArts worst adventure games. But that's me. Let's call it "polarizing".

    • wk_end 1 hour ago
      > Between an art style that didn't age well and didn't grab me even then, obscure puzzles and a theme that doesn't interest me so much...

      Everything's subjective, but I think most people would say that the art style was great then and is still great, and the theme is pretty unique and compelling. That's why people like it so much.

      The puzzles and interface really are awful though, and I say that as someone with a reasonable tolerance for adventure game logic. It's far-and-away the worst-playing classic LucasArts adventure, and even though I'm sure there's plenty of adventure games with worse puzzle design, I'm struggling to think of one with a wider gap in quality between the game design and everything else. Everything's frequently so disjointed and it's such a slog to get around, it's not even one of those "use a walkthrough when you get stuck" games; it's a "just follow a walkthrough constantly" game, or maybe even a "just watch a longplay" game.

    • inanutshellus 4 hours ago
      I'll bite.

          - Nothing like it in style and execution.
      
          - Superb and unique universe. It's brilliant. Fight me. ;)
      
          - Charming, engaging storytelling full of wit and humor. Charm and humor are particularly hard to pull off, it seems, given how few games I can think of that have them. (Bard's Tale and... uh...)
      
          - If you like the adventure games of the era, then this one is right up your alley. The puzzles are much more frustration-friendly than modern games, so they're not for the coddled gamers of today who, frankly, would just use an answer sheet when they got stuck. OTOH forcing yourself to stick with it and get that "Ohhhhhh the *diamond* makes the boat sink around us! *that's* how we climb out!" -- which is a real example from a *different* LucasArts game -- is very satisfying.
    • the_af 3 hours ago
      It's the theme and characters. Remember this game predates Coco by a lot!

      If the Day of the Dead setting does nothing for you, then you'll dislike the game. But if it intrigues you, you'll likely love it.

      The puzzles are arbitrary, it's not really what the game is about.

  • dariosalvi78 11 hours ago
    I've been playing most of Lucas Arts games with my 10 y/o daughter. Grim Fandango is the one she has liked the best. It is not perfect, has lots of bugs (crashed on several occasions) and weird things, but the atmosphere is so cool.

    Monkey Island comes second of course.

  • armcat 9 hours ago
    I would sometimes just let the game idle at the casino level and just listen to the mellow jazz. That game was a piece of art.
  • gyomu 11 hours ago
    Ahha, this document came to my attention last night from this video [0] that bubbled in my YouTube recs - I don't know if it's the same for OP or just a coincidence, but I highly recommend it too:

    GDC Talk: "One Page Designs", by Stone Librande

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9_wLks1kAg

    • kelseyfrog 3 hours ago
      Not a coincidence. Submitting references and sources is a bit of a HN cheat code.
    • oAlbe 8 hours ago
      I came here to post just this.

      That GDC talk just showed up on my YouTube frontpage this morning and I watched it. And now I check HN and here we are.

      Seems like ultimately they aren't actually able to track us as well as they claim.

  • Bayard_ne 11 hours ago
    Always fascinating to peek behind the curtain at how these classics were built. Grim Fandango had some truly brilliant, and occasionally maddening, puzzles.
  • agilek 14 minutes ago
    "Intimidating? Me? But I'm your friend. My name is Manny Calvera. I'm your new travel agent.".
  • drooopy 1 hour ago
    Year 2 of GF might be my favourite memory of any video game, ever.
  • mannycalavera1 3 hours ago
    don't remember where I found this, but here is the viewing list for the movies that inspired the game. It has Tim put his viewing notes in it

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YsollH04QK9si9uEm3VXZWT0snH...

  • AdmiralAsshat 5 hours ago
    I'm glad I used a walkthrough when playing the game, because even after beating it I still have no idea how the hell the Chain puzzle worked.
  • pflenker 10 hours ago
    Grim Fandango was one of the first games I bought out of my own pocket. And as was the norm back then, this used up all my games budget for months, so I had to stick to this game, for better or worse, for a long time. I remember it took me a very long time to even find the Tube Room, it's easy to miss unless you do the 3D equivalent of pixelhunting to find the place where you need to take a turn. And boy, was I stuck in Rubacava!

    I also remember that it was slightly difficult to buy the game - I was at least 13 at the time, the game had an age rating of 12, but (gasp!) there were skeletons on the cover, and the tag line mentioned corruption and crime. So the lady in the shop actually called her boss before eventually selling the game to me.

  • ModernMech 8 hours ago
    Grim Fandango is interesting because they are responsible for Lua’s popularity as a gaming scripting language:

    https://www.lua.org/doc/hopl.pdf

  • shmeeed 10 hours ago
    Obligatory link to The Digital Antiquarian's treatment of the game:

    https://www.filfre.net/2024/11/grim-fandango/

  • damethos 8 hours ago
    Nostalgia activated. I now have to play Grim Fandango! Loved that game!
  • N_Lens 12 hours ago
    This game is iconic!
    • hnarayanan 12 hours ago
      Yes. Literally one of the best.
  • garlic_yogurt 8 hours ago
    I wonder who made the drawings they are really pretty. I love this game, thanks for the post!
    • facundo_olano 7 hours ago
      Peter Chan was the concept artist for this game (as well as several other LucasArts and Double Fine ones)
  • snickerer 12 hours ago
    Is this a walkthrough or a game design document?

    As a walkthrough, it is nice. But as the foundation for the game designers, it would be a fun because it is so lighthearted.

    • cyxxon 12 hours ago
      Design document, from the page that links this pdf (http://gameshelf.jmac.org/2008/11/grim-fandango-puzzle-desig...):

      "Tim Schafer at Double Fine has posted the puzzle design spec for his classic adventure game, Grim Fandango. It is that game's tenth anniversary; it was released on the Day of the Dead, 1998."

    • PetitPrince 12 hours ago
      Looks like Tom Schafer style; I find him whimsical and funny in all of his communication. I don't think it's a stretch that this aspect extends to nom-public communications.
    • wodenokoto 12 hours ago
      It's a game design document.

      My guess is it is kinda like a first draft that some higher ups approve and budgets and then dialogue and game development and puzzle testing can begin.

    • TZubiri 11 hours ago
      Looks like a GDD but just for the puzzles, a PDD
  • bherms 9 hours ago
    My favorite game of all time. This is awesome
  • _s_a_m_ 10 hours ago
    Absoltely crazy amount of detailed work
  • alphayc 9 hours ago
    Interesting so much
  • LeComedien 5 hours ago
    Brilliant game, so much soul and character... I wish we could get another game in the same universe.
  • raverbashing 7 hours ago
    I wonder how does this fits in the general Game development pipeline

    Is it Story -> Characters -> Puzzles?

    Theme -> Characters -> Story -> Puzzles?

    Or everything everywhere all at once?

    Are the character descriptions in this doc leading the Story or derived from it?

    How much of the story is built around Gameplay and its limitations? (I think I remember GF requiring 2 CDs?)

  • upmostly 10 hours ago
    I have a love/hate relationship with Grim Fandango.

    I love the world, the characters, the music, and the art style. It was so inspiring for me as a child.

    I literally hate the puzzles and the gameplay.

    • dajonker 6 hours ago
      Same here, I bought it when it came out in one of those nice carton boxes. It was rather buggy and hard to play without a walkthrough. The characters, the music, the story, the dialog, it's all so memorable and easily makes up for those bugs and hard puzzles. I played the remaster when it came out on PS4 as well, still great, but perhaps that's just the nostalgia.
      • upmostly 6 hours ago
        Agreed. I actually didn't find it buggy when I bought it in 1998. I loved the box art.

        I recently went through it from start to finish as an adult and found it an incredible slog to get through. The puzzles, to me, made zero sense, which sucks the fun out of the game because the only possible way to solve them is to just try everything with everything or to look up the solution.

        The latest Monkey Island. Now THAT's how you make a point-and-click adventure game!

        That is the difference between Gilbert's game design versus Schafer's. I much prefer Gilbert.

  • TZubiri 11 hours ago
    >"This report by its very length defends itself against the risk of being read" Winston H. Churchill

    And this comment will prove it, by referencing only the very first part of the document, being the comment most likely to garner upvotes and replies, as opposed to deeper nuanced comments.

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