7 comments

  • unified101 1 hour ago
    The actual answer is there's operational cost to handling cash, or payment methods beyond the ones that cover 99.9% people well. You pay more for the extra hassle the whole system has to serve that .1%

    You may not like or disagree with it. But it's the true answer.

    • ArnoVW 14 minutes ago
      And for some transactions that makes sense. But for something that is supposed to serve everyone, and where there is a (natural) monopoly, that cannot be and acceptable answer.

      Also, having your entire economy depend on companies that are not under your control, and that are even actively being weaponised, that seems like a stupid thing to do.

      Also, nothing in all of that precluded a web app.

      It'll take a couple of years but people will figure it out eventually.

    • graemep 42 minutes ago
      There are operational issues with phones (e.g. batteries running out).

      This has nothing to do with handling cash. It is to do with the elimination of paper tickets for monthly passes. Where I live you can pay cash for one off tickets, but they refuse to sell you paper monthly tickets.

      • KellyCriterion 20 minutes ago
        why are they so focussed on "monthyl paper tickets"? are these any different to daily paper tickets?
        • AstroJetson 3 minutes ago
          Yes, they are good for a month and you get the monthly rate which can be much less than the daily rate. In my area the difference is about 20%
        • gunalx 1 minute ago
          Cheaper per ride over the month usually.
    • damethos 14 minutes ago
      Are you implying that there isn't an operational cost for maintaining the infrastructure to support cashless payments or that it's cheaper? Unless I see actual numbers I am not convinced and that 1% you mention sounds completely random to me and not really "the true answer".
    • takipsizad 50 minutes ago
      You dont have to handle cash directly, you can have kiosks that are dedicated to adding cash to a public transit card and they will solve the problem you are talking about.
      • jbs789 34 minutes ago
        Who collects the cash? Who maintains the kiosks?
        • takipsizad 19 minutes ago
          First: You can have kiosks (in central locations like metro stations) or you can have dedicated points like where a market collects the cash and they add the balance that way. Second: The public transit company? we aren't splitting the atom here.
    • simoncion 14 minutes ago
      > The actual answer is there's operational cost to handling cash...

      Really? From TFA:

        When comparing the prices of First’s weekly bus pass in my area, which is available to purchase on the bus, and its monthly pass, which is exclusive to its app...
      
      If the reason were "operational cost to handling cash", you'd expect that cost to be substantially less for the one where you handle cash only once per month than the one where you have to handle it four times per month, no?
    • metalman 51 minutes ago
      £264.00 per year, per head extra, is operational theft, and it will be MUCH higher than 1% of rides, and further more , cash rides will exist in perpetuity as there is NO OTHER WAY to deal with edge cases and contingencies of public transport, making the 'extra' cost look more like some wienie frustrated managers little play at despotism.
    • fsflover 42 minutes ago
      Then why should I have to pay more if I don't use Apple's and Google's smartphones? I use a GNU/Linux phone. Web app would work flawlessly.
    • bell-cot 50 minutes ago
      I don't know Britain, but in my part of America the extra costs of taking credit cards are so high that most gasoline (petrol) stations give a ~3% discount to customers paying with old-fashioned paper cash. And I know little grocery stores with signs by their register, asking customers to please pay with cash - because margins are tight, and the bank takes an X% cut of every credit card payment and a Y% cut of every debit card payment.
      • graemep 47 minutes ago
        That is illegal in the UK.
        • CGamesPlay 45 minutes ago
          I don't' know what "that" you're referring to, but in the USA it is against the payment processor agreement to give a discount for cash. So not illegal, but a contract breach.
          • graemep 41 minutes ago
            In the UK it is actually against the law.
            • Joker_vD 28 minutes ago
              To give discounts for cash or for the payment processors to charge above 0% from the sellers?
              • KellyCriterion 19 minutes ago
                Id guess the discrimination itself between these two things and putting it in a contract?
          • simoncion 22 minutes ago
            > ...but in the USA it is against the payment processor agreement to give a discount for cash. So not illegal, but a contract breach.

            This may be true, but State and Federal law prevail. In California, this [0] looks to be the relevant regulation:

              1748.1. (a) No retailer in any sales, service, or lease transaction with a consumer may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check, or similar means. A retailer may, however, offer discounts for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check, or other means not involving the use of a credit card, provided that the discount is offered to all prospective buyers.
            
            Most mom-and-pop places I shop at here in San Francisco either offer discounts for paying in cash or have signs up suggesting that folks pay in cash so the business keeps more of the transaction.

            [0] <https://law.justia.com/codes/california/code-civ/division-3/...> The official place to find this would probably be [1] , but that's super down for me at the moment, so I link to something unofficial.

            [1] <https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...>

          • bell-cot 38 minutes ago
            The gas stations doing it have large, permanent roadside signage displaying the different prices for "Cash" vs. "Credit". So there may be exceptions in the fine print of those payment processor agreements. Or the gas stations all know the laws giving them such rights, which the agreements can't override. Or something.
      • aaron695 19 minutes ago
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  • Elfener 50 minutes ago
    I find it weird that you have to pay every time you get on a bus in the UK it seems?

    Are there no passes? e.g. in Budapest I have a monthly public transport pass and I just board the vehicle when it arrives without having to validate or purchase a ticket every time.

    • graemep 48 minutes ago
      The article is about the cost and availability of passes. The cheaper passes are apps.
  • chimneychanga 1 hour ago
    I have the same issue but regarding paying for groceries. I have to pay more because I don't have access to the grocery store's coupon app because I don't use a smartphone.
    • lopis 1 hour ago
      People with the app are paying with their person Al data. Seems like a fair deal.
      • LetMeLogin 51 minutes ago
        Not really, I still have physical fob with barcode.
  • zahirbmirza 48 minutes ago
    What is the non-standard OS that the writer is using?
    • girvo 46 minutes ago
      Graphene or similar, probably. Annoyingly a tonne of apps lock themselves out of working on it.
    • fsflover 40 minutes ago
      Could be postmarketOS, Mobian, PureOS or similar.
  • bell-cot 1 hour ago
    Because the transit authority has to work at taking your fare. Vs. the easy route of trusting a cheap & convenient app ecosystem (helpfully run by SpyCo, CreepTech, and DataHarvest Ltd.) do all the hard bits. While the authority basks in feeling cool and trendy. Plus, smartphone fare fraud looks really complicated (vs. counterfeit metal tokens or whatever) - so the authority feels no pressure to do anything about it.

    Less cynically, a good national policy might be to treat all "excess" revenues collected by organizations providing better deals to those passing various wealth/class/fluency tests ("has bank account", "has smart phone", etc.) as "poor taxes". Which are totally legal...but must be accounted for in excruciating detail, and every last farthing turned over to the greedy nitpickers staffing the Poor Tax Dept. of His Majesty's Revenue Authority. Every month, no excuses. So, to avoid that monthly misery for their so-privileged selves, the managers at every org with the paper power to collect poor taxes work hard to make sure that they are not doing so.

  • onetokeoverthe 1 hour ago
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  • onetokeoverthe 1 hour ago
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